11 replies to this topic

[Elliskwleisk]

Okay so I'm rebuilding my car from scratch and right now I am putting together the suspension. All four corners are off the ground so all the suspension is on full droop. Basically, I have fitted the hub, arms and all the gubbings and I wanted to set up the geometry and tracking as best as I can to eye and then I'll take it to all be set up properly on route to the M.O.T., once it's all rebuilt. 

 

So, I assembled everything loosely, fitted C-AJJ3360 Minispares adjustable lower arms and heavy duty adjustable tie bars. I then used the Gunson 77066 Camber Gauge to set the camber to 1deg negative. I calibrated the gauge before hand. Tightened everything up, fitted a new standard steering rack from minispares and bought two of the longer competition track rod ends C-AJJ1572. I centred the steering rack and then fitted the track rod ends to the rack. However, to get the wheels to sit straight I have to put the track rod end on to what I consider, dangerously few threads. 

 

So, with the wheel straight to eye, the track rod end is only on 8 full turns, which equates to about 11mm of thread! This cannot be right or safe surely.

 

Any suggestions? 

 

On another note, when I turn the wheel side to side, the NEW steering rack feels quite rough and noisy! Is this normal, or is there some way of lubricating it that isn't done at the factory?

 

Cheers

[Stiggytoo]

I believe you can get longer track rod ends. Make sure the rack U-bolts weren't over tightened and that it is aligned correctly with the steering column.

[ukcooper]

Standard total length is 80mm of track rod end, longer version for lower suspension is 95mm total complete length.

http://www.minispare...t/Dry.aspx|Back

Edited by ukcooper, 06 July 2014 - 03:01 PM.

[Elliskwleisk]

I believe you can get longer track rod ends. Make sure the rack U-bolts weren't over tightened and that it is aligned correctly with the steering column.

 

 

Standard total length is 80mm of track rod end, longer version for lower suspension is 95mm total complete length.

http://www.minispare...t/Dry.aspx|Back

 

 

 

 

As already stated above, I have fitted two of the longer competition track rod ends, Minispares part number: C-AJJ1572

 

I also stated that I aligned the steering rack as per the Haynes manuals instructions. 

 

 

The only thing I can thick of is that my Gunson camber gauge is faulty and I've actually set it with like 5deg negative camber. 

[Dusky]

Mini was ( from factory) only 11 turns, don't know if those 3 extra turns will make that much of a differance?

[timmy850]

Just to confirm you've done the done all the alignment with the wheels off the ground? 1 degree neg camber at full droop is nowhere near 1 degree at driving height. 

[racingbob]

you would notice if it was 5 deg

[Elliskwleisk]

Just to confirm you've done the done all the alignment with the wheels off the ground? 1 degree neg camber at full droop is nowhere near 1 degree at driving height. 

 

I am aware that the alignment will be different but I am not looking to have it anywhere near accurate, just enough to be able to roll it in a straight line on and off a trailer so that I am able to get it to a professional. However, I would imagine that there should still be sufficient threads on the T.R.E. when the car is jacked up and the suspension is on full droop otherwise there would me huge amounts of strain on the threads of the T.R.E. would there not? 

[69k1100]

.

Edited by 69k1100, 07 July 2014 - 09:15 AM.

[69k1100]

If you want it to roll straight then align it as it is to be driven. What you're experiencing with the suspension as full droop is a physical representation of bump steer, the track rod (or tie rod?) is actually shortened as it moves through an arc (think about how it has to move as the suspension goes up and down)

This shortening pulls the wheel inwards "steering" the car. This is why longer tie rods are needed for lowered cars.

If you align it a full droop the rods will never seem long enough.

[carbon]

As 69K says, if you try setting up your front suspension geometry with the wheels at full droop you're going to get some weird results.

 

Setting your front camber for 1 deg negative with wheels at full droop will probably give you something like 3 degrees negative or more when it is sitting at 'normal' wheel height.

 

Do you have the engine in the car yet? You'll need the weight to get the suspension settled down...

[Elliskwleisk]

Mini was ( from factory) only 11 turns, don't know if those 3 extra turns will make that much of a differance?

 
 

Just to confirm you've done the done all the alignment with the wheels off the ground? 1 degree neg camber at full droop is nowhere near 1 degree at driving height. 

 
 

If you want it to roll straight then align it as it is to be driven. What you're experiencing with the suspension as full droop is a physical representation of bump steer, the track rod (or tie rod?) is actually shortened as it moves through an arc (think about how it has to move as the suspension goes up and down)

This shortening pulls the wheel inwards "steering" the car. This is why longer tie rods are needed for lowered cars.

If you align it a full droop the rods will never seem long enough.

 
 

As 69K says, if you try setting up your front suspension geometry with the wheels at full droop you're going to get some weird results.
 
Setting your front camber for 1 deg negative with wheels at full droop will probably give you something like 3 degrees negative or more when it is sitting at 'normal' wheel height.
 
Do you have the engine in the car yet? You'll need the weight to get the suspension settled down...

 
 
 Okay so I felt that it may be of potential help to future searchers with similar problems if I were to state my solution. 
 
The rough sounding steering rack - I have spoken to minispares and they say that it will just need "Bed in". The car is now on its wheels and has been rolling about from lock to lock for the past few months. Admittedly, this is very unlikely to "bed in" the rack, however, it has quietened down dramatically and sounds much smoother - result! 
 
As for the track rod end's being too short - I purchased two of the competition longer track rod ends - C-AJJ1572, from mini spares, painted them up, fitted them and discovered my issue with it only being on the track rod approximately 8 threads. Then, while pushing it out of the steering knuckle, I managed to knacker the threads on one of them. So, I ordered another  C-AJJ1572. When it arrived, straight away I could tell it was different. It had a totally different shape and it is noticeably larger. So after you clever folks supplying me with the dimensions of the different T.R.E.'s on offer, I discovered that the first two I had received were actually standard length! Or there about's, maybe a tad longer. So, problem solved. Or so I thought. I then painted up the new longer T.R.E. which was actually longer, got it all ready to fit, tried to screw it on to the track rod but it wouldn't bite. So a quick look inside and I discovered that I had received a dud! Not a single thread! 
 

 
Anyway, here are the three different T.R.E's. From left to right, The longer competition C-AJJ1572 that was usable, the longer competition C-AJJ1572 that was a dud! And the standardish length T.R.E. that confused me. The picture doesn't really show it well at all but the T.R.E. on the right is almost 10mm shorter. 
 

 
So I got on to the phone to minispares, told them the story and fortunately, they were sympathetic and sent me another two longer T.R.E.'s for free!   Got them painted up and fitted and now they screw on a total of approximately 11 turns, which if Dusky is correct, should mean that it is perfectly safe. Also, I now known that tracking should be set with the wheels on the ground, schoolboy!   
 
Moral of the story, cross reference the part numbers on the boxes! Don't just assume you've been sent the correct item! 

Edited by Elliskwleisk, 08 August 2014 - 10:58 PM.