10 replies to this topic

[Bunglefuzz]

Hello,

 

I've got a totally standard 1975 998 mini.

 

I'm wanting to improve the handling without making it look 'tricked up'. When I say improve the handling I'm not asking for maximum grip, I'm just wanting to dampen down the understeering and get it more neutral.

 

Questions.

 

Is a thoroughly neutral handling balance a desirable thing? I'm a dab hand at driving and being on the limit doesn't scare me, I'm used to oversteering from kart racing.

 

I'm not wanting to lower the car because I want to keep the original look, but I am fitting Hi Lo's all round, if only to lower the back a bit and remove the 'kicked up the ass' look.

 

I'm assuming that negative camber bottom arms on the front will improve the front end grip, and I'm probably going to get adjustable ones and start at 1.5 degrees. Will this achieve a neutral feel ? Should I start at 2 degrees if I'm not lowering it?

 

If I can improve overall grip then I'd like to fit adjustable brackets on the rear radius arms, but would this simply make the car understeer again? And if so what more could be done to the front to get it neutral again. I know every car is different, but is there a sort of standard set up that should work?

 

I was just watching some mini racing on Youtube and the commentator was talking about brake bias being rear weighted which gets the back out a bit going into the corner, should this be considered? Is it a big modification ?

 

I'm basically happy to do anything except add arches or lower it. The standard look is desirable to me.

 

Any advice and firm starting points would be highly recommended.

 

Muchas Gracias Amigos....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GraemeC]

Sensible camber will increase grip. Tracking, front and rear, will change how neutral the car is.
Racers tend to run toe out on the rear to make it step out, for a road car I wouldn't recommend anything past parallel.

[Bunglefuzz]

Is the rear not parallel as standard ?

[Gremlin]

Is the rear not parallel as standard ?

Toes in as standard

[racingbob]

I put adj camber arms on and tie rods yes 1.5 deg sounds good

 

put some adj shocks on too

 

I just put some camber on the back

 

didn't change toe on rear its only fast road car

 

car feels good

[Cooperman]

For a road Mini (no such thing as a 'fast' road Mini, just 'not quite so slow' road Mini  ) the best settings for optimum handling are:

 

Front:   Camber 1 degree to 1.5 degrees negative with 10" or 12" wheels

             Caster 3 to 3.5 degrees

             Toe-Out 1 mm to 2 mm

 

Rear:   Camber zero to 0.5 degrees negative

            Toe-In 1 mm to 1.5 mm

 

Tyres: Either 145 or 165 section on top quality rubber

 

Wheels:  4.5" maximum wheel width.

 

Tyre pressures:  32 psi front, 30 psi rear.

 

Front sub-frame solidly mounted with all suspension bushes in top condition.

[Bunglefuzz]

For a road Mini (no such thing as a 'fast' road Mini, just 'not quite so slow' road Mini  ) the best settings for optimum handling are:

 

Front:   Camber 1 degree to 1.5 degrees negative with 10" or 12" wheels

             Caster 3 to 3.5 degrees

             Toe-Out 1 mm to 2 mm

 

Rear:   Camber zero to 0.5 degrees negative

            Toe-In 1 mm to 1.5 mm

 

Tyres: Either 145 or 165 section on top quality rubber

 

Wheels:  4.5" maximum wheel width.

 

Tyre pressures:  32 psi front, 30 psi rear.

 

Front sub-frame solidly mounted with all suspension bushes in top condition.

 

Cooperman,

 

That sounds pretty accurate. Please kindly tell me your experience and just how well advised I have been here. Would you bet heavy money on those settings and what sort of handling could I expect from them?
Also, is uprating the front sub frame mounts really that important? I've been told that firming stuff up too much can put unnecessary strain on the body, although granted the springs haven't changed, apart from the hi lo's.

Would you go for a brake bias set up as per my original posting?

Very much appreciated.
Bunglefuzz

[Cooperman]

I have been building, testing, driving and preparing Minis for competition since 1961 (since you ask) and I am a qualified aerospace design engineer..

Solid mounting of the front sub-frame is essential for optimum steering response and accurate handling, as well as good road-holding. Your car should already have a solid mounted front sub-frame, but check it to be sure.

Those are the nominal settings to which I always set rally Minis and they work well.

I would not bother with any changes to brake bias unless you intend driving flat out on gravel, in which case a bit more on the rear can help at the limit to set the car up for corners or when 'left-foot-braking'.

A Mini should understeer under full power and oversteer when the power is removed in a corner. That is a basic front-wheel-drive characteristic with a short wheel-base FWD car.

Always remember, it is a 55-year old designed classic car.

 

May I ask why the sailplane in your avatar?

[Bunglefuzz]

I have been building, testing, driving and preparing Minis for competition since 1961 (since you ask) and I am a qualified aerospace design engineer..

Solid mounting of the front sub-frame is essential for optimum steering response and accurate handling, as well as good road-holding. Your car should already have a solid mounted front sub-frame, but check it to be sure.

Those are the nominal settings to which I always set rally Minis and they work well.

I would not bother with any changes to brake bias unless you intend driving flat out on gravel, in which case a bit more on the rear can help at the limit to set the car up for corners or when 'left-foot-braking'.

A Mini should understeer under full power and oversteer when the power is removed in a corner. That is a basic front-wheel-drive characteristic with a short wheel-base FWD car.

Always remember, it is a 55-year old designed classic car.

 

May I ask why the sailplane in your avatar?

 

Cooper Man. 
I've just searched for this old post as I'm doing the tracking again on my mini and using the figures you supplied. Sorry I never thanked you at the time. You asked about the sailplane on my avatar. Yes, I'm a glider pilot out of Nympsfield, but I see from your description, you are also a glider pilot?

[mbolt998]

Hello,

 

I've got a totally standard 1975 998 mini.

 

I'm wanting to improve the handling without making it look 'tricked up'. When I say improve the handling I'm not asking for maximum grip, I'm just wanting to dampen down the understeering and get it more neutral.

 

Questions.

 

Is a thoroughly neutral handling balance a desirable thing? I'm a dab hand at driving and being on the limit doesn't scare me, I'm used to oversteering from kart racing.

 

 

I have a totally standard 1979 998 Mini. Also consider myself a dab hand at driving :) Although the natural tendency is understeer you just need to brake a bit deeper into corners-- I used to spin mine quite often. So I would recommend just getting to know the car as it is. However, that's not to say that it might not be fun to experiment so don't let me put you off!

[Cooperman]

 

I have been building, testing, driving and preparing Minis for competition since 1961 (since you ask) and I am a qualified aerospace design engineer..

Solid mounting of the front sub-frame is essential for optimum steering response and accurate handling, as well as good road-holding. Your car should already have a solid mounted front sub-frame, but check it to be sure.

Those are the nominal settings to which I always set rally Minis and they work well.

I would not bother with any changes to brake bias unless you intend driving flat out on gravel, in which case a bit more on the rear can help at the limit to set the car up for corners or when 'left-foot-braking'.

A Mini should understeer under full power and oversteer when the power is removed in a corner. That is a basic front-wheel-drive characteristic with a short wheel-base FWD car.

Always remember, it is a 55-year old designed classic car.

 

May I ask why the sailplane in your avatar?

 

Cooper Man. 
I've just searched for this old post as I'm doing the tracking again on my mini and using the figures you supplied. Sorry I never thanked you at the time. You asked about the sailplane on my avatar. Yes, I'm a glider pilot out of Nympsfield, but I see from your description, you are also a glider pilot?

 

You have a PM.