16 replies to this topic

[TMW.Racing]

Afternoon all,

 

Got a potential steering problem that's playing on my mind a little:

 

When driving, when turning the wheel the steering is comparative really light at first, before getting to what feels like the correct weighting through the rest of the steering range. This happens more when turning right than left - up to between 2-3 o'clock turning right and up to between 11-10 o'clock turning left.

 

During the light phase, the steering also feels quite vague / imprecise.

 

This vagueness / impreciseness also occurs when making minor steering inputs or corrections when the wheel is in the "properly weighted zone" of steering.

 

At a standstill this does not show up (as far as I can tell anyway) and when moving the wheel and watching the front wheels, the wheels seem to turn precisely with small steering inputs etc.

 

I noticed this before doing a fair amount of suspension work, but having changed all 4 cones, a loose ball joint, both track rod ends (and had tracking professionally done), all front suspension bushes and the passenger side radius arm (which was seized solid!!) as well as checking the rack clamp nuts and column pinch bolt fixing (all properly tightened) the problem persists so now I'm wondering about any wear in the rack etc...

 

Any and all ideas and advice will be welcomed!! Thanks

 

 

[Stiggytoo]

Check your steering rack bolts in the foot well, and the column pinch bolt. The only other thing I would say is that it's to do with your suspension/steering geometries, maybe a lot of caster but that sounds unlikely.

 

Edit: Also check for movement in front subframe and tear drop mounts etc.

Edited by Stiggytoo, 07 August 2014 - 05:52 PM.

[carbon]

Are you using standard mini wheels and suspension set-up, or has this been modified?

[cal844]

Check your steering rack bolts in the foot well, and the column pinch bolt. The only other thing I would say is that it's to do with your suspension/steering geometries, maybe a lot of caster but that sounds unlikely.
 
Edit: Also check for movement in front subframe and tear drop mounts etc.

as well as checking the rack clamp nuts and column pinch bolt fixing (all properly tightened) the problem persists so now I'm wondering about any wear in the rack etc...


Personally id change the rack and track rod ends

[TMW.Racing]

Are you using standard mini wheels and suspension set-up, or has this been modified?

 

Good point, its on 12" wheels with the standard suspension setup, recently changed all the bushes etc but no change

 

 

Check your steering rack bolts in the foot well, and the column pinch bolt. The only other thing I would say is that it's to do with your suspension/steering geometries, maybe a lot of caster but that sounds unlikely.
 
Edit: Also check for movement in front subframe and tear drop mounts etc.

as well as checking the rack clamp nuts and column pinch bolt fixing (all properly tightened) the problem persists so now I'm wondering about any wear in the rack etc...


Personally id change the rack and track rod ends

 

 

Will have to check the subframe mounts, one thing i've not checked yet! only just put new rod ends on, have been wondering about the rack - intrigued to get further opinion from the good folk of TMF!

[cal844]

I have experienced a similar issue on our 998 (i drove it down our driveway, the car would only start to turn at maybe 1-2 o'clock... Not good with a few thousand pounds worth of motor about!!)Turns out the steering rack was shot!

We also changed 

Track rod ends(yours wont need changed)

Ball joints

Subframe mountings (top rubbers, front and toeboard mounts)

Edited by cal844, 07 August 2014 - 07:13 PM.

[TMW.Racing]

cheers cal - starting to look towards a rack change I think, but will have to have a butchers at the subframe mounts as well - not sure how to go about that though, will have a delve into the haynes, am guessing the bottom ones are pretty self evident how to change but not sure about the top rubbers!

 

The only reason I've been a bit uneasy about pointing blame at the rack straight away is that there is not any slackness - the minutest steering input is being transmitted to the wheels, its just really light and uneasy / vague in the initial turn :-/

[cal844]

The top rubbers are easy, we put the car on ramps, removed the bottom mounts(use eye wear and make sure the car is in gear, handbrake on, and wedge the rear wheels before starting!)

Then removed the tower bolts, the spacer ones go between the subframe and bulkhead crossmember...
Then re fit the top bolts(with spacing rubber!)
Then fit the new bottom(toeboard) mounts
Now the fiddly bit, the teardrop mounts, these bolt through the valance, remove the bolts, then theres 2 bolts on the inside of the front panel (above the front of the subby) remove these then rebuild in reverse!

HTH

[TMW.Racing]

Ahhh who need a haynes manual! :-p cheers for that, very useful! 

 

Starting to think that given the subframe needs to be dropped slightly to replace the rack, I may as well do that at the same time - may be a bit belt and braces but at least it covers all the bases!!

[cal844]

Yeah, doing therack at that time is advisable, i bought a genuine reconditioned rack

[TMW.Racing]

Hmmm now starting to think about solid frame mounts... Research time!

[cal844]

I believe the rubber mounted subby front panel is slightly different to the solid front panel?!

[ibrooks]

It is but you can get solid mounts that directly replace the later rubber style - I always fit them. Don't be tempted to just fit some solid mounts and leave some as rubber or poly because that way lies cracking bulkheads.

 

Personally I'd be identifying the problem before replacing parts pretty much at random.

 

With the car sat on the ground and a glamorous assistant in the drivers seat open the bonnet and look at the tops of the towers on the subframe. Now get the assistant to rock the steering from side-to-side. Can you see the subframe moving in relation to the body? A rubber mounted frame will always move a little but more than 5-10mm under those conditions means the mounts need to be replaced.

 

Next you need to be able to see underneath but whilst the weight is still on the suspension - I find running one side of the car up on a kerb is a good way of doing this with little chance of the car falling off and squishing any part of your anatomy that might be under there. Get to a position where you can see the steering rack. Now get the assistant to rock the steering again whilst you watch the rack. There should be no movement between the rack and the bulkhead. If there is then the U-bolts are loose.

 

You might find that the steering can be sorted without replacing anything.

 

Iain

[TMW.Racing]

Yeah I've seen that a solid / rubber mix is just a recipe for problems, will either be a whole set if I did go down that route! 

 

But that is a good point about the checks to do - will have a cycle through those before I make a decision about ordering any parts etc, will report back!

 

Thanks a lot Iain!

[TMW.Racing]

It is but you can get solid mounts that directly replace the later rubber style - I always fit them. Don't be tempted to just fit some solid mounts and leave some as rubber or poly because that way lies cracking bulkheads.

 

Personally I'd be identifying the problem before replacing parts pretty much at random.

 

With the car sat on the ground and a glamorous assistant in the drivers seat open the bonnet and look at the tops of the towers on the subframe. Now get the assistant to rock the steering from side-to-side. Can you see the subframe moving in relation to the body? A rubber mounted frame will always move a little but more than 5-10mm under those conditions means the mounts need to be replaced.

 

Next you need to be able to see underneath but whilst the weight is still on the suspension - I find running one side of the car up on a kerb is a good way of doing this with little chance of the car falling off and squishing any part of your anatomy that might be under there. Get to a position where you can see the steering rack. Now get the assistant to rock the steering again whilst you watch the rack. There should be no movement between the rack and the bulkhead. If there is then the U-bolts are loose.

 

You might find that the steering can be sorted without replacing anything.

 

Iain

 

Iain, thanks very much for that guide, just had my glamorous assistant run through all that with me and you are quite right - the subby is moving rather alarmingly! Also watching the movement and the progression of the movement it ties in exactly with how the car feels to drive, so this problem is now sussed!!

 

Did also check the rack for piece of mind but there is no movement there.

 

Consider a virtual pint (or any other beverage of your choosing!) sent!