27 replies to this topic

[Black.Ghost]

I am trying to find out myself on Google as well but it seems fairly complicated.

 

My gf has to clock in at work 5 minutes before her shift starts, to allow her time to get to her house (she works with autistic people), take off her jacket and bag etc. The reality is it takes her 30 seconds to get to the house, and she is good to work within 60 seconds or so. 

 

If she clocks in at say 6.57, for a shift that starts at 7, she is losing 15 minutes pay for being late! How the hell is this fair? I am going to tell her to not work the 15 minutes in future if they insist on it. Most of the time, she is really early (like 20-30 minutes) because she walks to work and leaves plenty of time. For some shifts, I take her and the occasions she has been late is because we have hit unusually heavy traffic or something like that. 

 

There has only been one occasion when she was after the actual start time - around 2.50pm, for a 2.30pm start, due to huge tailbacks on the A1. 

 

I hate employers holding people to ransom. They don't pay you extra money here and there, so why should they expect that you work for free? They don't pay extra if you clock out five minutes late. 

 

On a side note, my boss worked 500 unpaid hours of overtime last year. 500 hours. I worked it out to be around 16k of his time based on an estimated salary! 

[Miniminx71]

If she has to be there 5 mins before the shift, where does the 15 come in if she's 3 mins late?

[Carlos W]

If she has to be there 5 minutes before the shift, the shift starts 5 minutes before they say it does.

 

She is at the disposal of her employer from when she clocks in.

 

Is she on minimum wage?

[MrElliott]

best thing for her to do is phone up ACAS to find out what to do and write a letter of grievance. this way the employer will be more inclined to act lawfully

[Black.Ghost]

No she isn't on minimum wage. 

 

Basically, clocking in at any point after the 5 minutes before the shift starts is considered to be late, and being late results in 15 minutes of pay being docked. Even though the reality if she clocks in at 6.57 she can be working by 7. It seems completely ridiculous to me. 

 

They don't get paid for that 5 minutes either. 

 

She is also on her probationary period at the moment, so I think she is worried about rocking the boat too much in case they say no to her - even though every review and team meeting so far has resulted in nothing but compliments. They have to have a certain number of staff per resident at all times, and she often spends time cleaning etc when many others are sitting around. She is a naturally very hard worker and everywhere she has worked they have loved her, but then they pull crap like this. 

 

Edit - just found this:

 

"The good news is that no extra penalties or deductions should be made unless there is specific provision for such deductions in your contract. Without such specific provisions, any additional docking of pay for you being late would amount to an "unlawful deduction from wages" for which you have statutory protection under the Employment Rights Act 1996." That is from an article on the Guardian website talking about docking pay. 

Edited by Black.Ghost, 10 September 2014 - 07:47 PM.

[Fast Ivan]

in my experience they can do what they want - up to the point you decide to do something about it, is she a member of a union? that's the best place to start.

[sonikk4]

Mmm tricky one with her being on probation. What does her contract say that she must have read and signed?? 

[Shifty]

If she's on probation then I'd put up and shut up for the time being.  Have they actually taken the money or is just implied/threatened?

[Black.Ghost]

She hasn't been paid so its already a tricky one. 

 

The problem is, she is a really nice person. I am worried they will just take advantage of her there.

[Shifty]

It's a pretty common practise to be honest and most factories i've worked in have done it to some degree.

 

You're expected to clock in at say 6am but you need to be there earlier to allow for getting changed into work clothes, cleaning etc(food factory). So if you arrive at the factory at 6am then you won't end up clocking in till 6,05am.

 

If she's on half decent money then its fair enough

[Black.Ghost]

For the times she was genuinely past the start time, I (and she) can accept that. But when she turns up 3 minutes before a scheduled start and can be ready to work on the dot, that's when it annoys her and is ridiculously unfair. Its an unpaid five minutes before the shift as well, but its most definitely not her own time at that point.

 

For what its worth, hopefully we will be moving back to Bournemouth in the not too distant future anyway. We only moved up here because of my job, and I don't like it! Time to get some more quals and move back.

Edited by Black.Ghost, 10 September 2014 - 08:33 PM.

[miniyellowmini]

The 15 mins deduction is common, they just quarter you to make it easy for payroll purposes. If I am late I make a point of not starting till the 15mins has passed.

 

I've had similar with my employer at one time to the extent he's been at the door looking at his watch as I walk though the door.

 

I normally walk though the door within a minute of my starting time. I have done for years. I have no desire to be there any longer than I'm paid for. Last year I was pulled up on this and they started saying I had to be there 2 mins earlier to prepare for work. I rarely take advantage of it but seemingly unbeknown to them I have it in writing (from many years ago) that actually I have 2 mins leeway so I can in fact arrive 2 mins after my official start time. So I basically took no notice and continued arriving exactly on time. They pulled me up on it again twice the following week after the second time I lost my rag and told my supervisor if he was unhappy with my timekeeping to put it in writing and I'll take it through HR. He said he would. Good I thought   Knowing that I was doing nothing wrong and that actually they could do nothing, not to mention that none of the management there have the balls to put their names to anything in writing. No letter came but this put an instant stop to it and nearly 12 months later it's never been mentioned since.

 

Nip it in the bud, they will take advantage otherwise. Might be hard if it's in her contract and she's on probation though. I have been at my place more years than I like to mention and I know they like to rattle their sabers now and again but ultimately won't do anything

Edited by miniyellowmini, 10 September 2014 - 08:59 PM.

[sledgehammer]

My job (which I'm not legally allowed to discuss on a public forum - due to contract) ... is ...

 

I must clock in @7:27 am - or I get 15 mins docked - start of shift is 7:30 (3 min to get safety equipment on)

 

must not go to toilet or wash hands after 4:10pm (4:30pm finish - can wash hands in own time after 4:30pm)

 

I'm usually in by 7:am - but make sure I'm putting on Safety gear after 7:30am

 

we told management we can wash hands - go to toilet any time - due to human rights - they backed down

 

but they still havn't backed down on the 7:27am - 3 mins unpaid rule - but we don't work the 3 mins anyway - but still clock in

 

but now our company is making over the 10% profit they require (approx 12% at the mo) they leave us alone to work

 

all our UK competition is making a loss - so they should be happy with this

 

If they ever give my area (unit) , any trouble / discipline - we inform them how many units they will lose in the days production -

 

we make sure the units are not produced - but continue to work all the time - so not skiving

 

they haven't messed with us for over 5 years now - & they make their money

 

swings & roundabouts with employment at the moment

 

The tory coalition has now made it harder for someone to go to industrial tribunal now & max payouts are less IIRC

 

my message is live with it to an extent - be fair to them - but if they aren't fair to you - tell them - then if no change - time to move on

Edited by sledgehammer, 10 September 2014 - 09:27 PM.

[ibrooks]

We've had fun and games in the past. Being a contractor but based on a customer site I'm not on the same terms as the rest of the people I work with. 

 

They work two bank holidays in return for the three days between Christmas and New-Year I take the bank hols and have to book the three days from my annual hols. We used to just follow the customer's lead until we got a manager on a remote site who picked up on it. Customer's not impressed as it means they have the whole site open with no server support on those two days.

 

Our company also works on a standard day of 7.5 hours over 5 days to give a 37.5 hour week whereas the customer works a 35 hour week spread over 4.5 days (Friday afternoon off). We've always done our best to comply by working 8 hours Mon-Thurs and 5.5 hours Friday morning - mainly because we would get kicked out on Friday afternoon as security want to get the place buttoned up. So if I want to take a Friday off do I book half a day or a full day? That one causes all sorts of fun and games and it's amazing how emotional some HR people can get about it. Nowadays I've got a decent line manager and so long as I don't book too many Fridays on their own as half days I can gain a slight advantage without anyone screaming.

 

Eventually they tend to work out that if they start clocking you by the minute there will be a queue of people stood by the clocking machine at 2 or three minutes to clocking out time waiting for the hand to tick over and then there's a rush for the gate. If they give a little leeway they find people will sit at their desks for another 5 minutes because if they leave "on the button" then they only spend that 5 minutes in the queue of traffic at the end of the road along with the rest of the clock-watchers.

 

Iain

[se_juggles]

lol 5 mins!!!!!! an extra 5mins!!!! 

 

Sorry but you can not complain about working an extra 5 mins and having 15 mins pay deducted if you are not 5 mins early.

 

I am a chef (yes it was my carrer choice so my fault) i get up at 6 30am 5 days a week to be at work, changed and set up for prep at 7.30.... if im not quess what i get.... a massive bollocking and shiii load of onions and veg to prep. i then work the whole day!!!! yes the whole day with a 30 min break to eat some food (if im lucky) till 11-12pm. that my friend is a 15 1/2 - 16 1/2 hr shift... 

 

i do not complain and i do not moan i get on with the job in hand because that is my role as a chef! i work over 75hrs a week serving people who think there food is magically poofed out of no where and i do that for around £3.50 an hr (including tips!)

 

There are people that have a right to complain about a little wage deduction and working extra time but most of us dont... we get our head down and remember that we could be without a job and this is what we do!