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High Power And Gearbox - What Fails?


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#1 Steve220

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 06:02 PM

Hi all,

 

I've used the search function and have read through a fair few threads about high powered A series engines and gearbox failing. With future plans being for a mini turbo I have not been able to find out exactly what on these gearboxes fails when you put large amounts of power through them, only that they 'break'.

 

I see on youtube and some pics on here when people re-build their gearboxes they use plastic race bearings which can't be much good for power and durability.

 

Any help would be appreciated as i'm sure due to the basic nature of these gearboxes there is a solution to help against cognitive failures for high power applications.

 

Regards

Steve



#2 Alex_B

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 06:07 PM

The differential is one weak point that normally fails early on. You can buy a cross pin diff that allows more power through the box without sending the diff pin through the case.

 

The actual casing can crack I believe thanks to the helical gears that try to rotate away from each other, straight cut gears replace the helical gears which removes the side loading experienced from the helicals. But thats the extent of my knowledge, Guessworks on here would be the best person to ask.



#3 mini13

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 06:10 PM

ok,

 

absolute no1 to go is the diff... swap to a minispares crosspin diff, practically indistructable.

 

pinion support bearing, go for a genuine SKF bearing (really that goes for all the bearings)

 

the main gear kit strarts to give issues at about 140-150hp, swap to a minispares clubman kit,

 

at this point yo'll be ok to 200 hp,

 

the drop gears most people change for strauight cut ones, but I have known std MPI ones to take well over 200hp reliably.

 

clutch is another topic in itself.



#4 Shep76S

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 06:57 PM

Syncromesh



#5 Steve220

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 07:19 PM

the main gear kit strarts to give issues at about 140-150hp, swap to a minispares clubman kit,
 


Many thanks for that, when you say issues, what issues are they?

#6 Spider

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 07:20 PM

As the other guys have said, the diff is a problem, but not just the hemisphere, the half shafts shear, the planet gears split, pins wear through, thrust faces disappear.

 

I'd actually suggest a Quaife Diff, lifetime guarantee as long as you don't exceed 750 HP ;D , besides, if you're going beyond about 90 HPs, you'll want / need something better than an Open Diff.

 

The Pinions can split and / or loose teeth, however, getting a good, on spec case helps here. We've enven had a few Crown Wheels loos the odd tooth too. The OEM CW & Ps were actually quite good, just need to take to them with a die grinder to remove any stress raisers, some of the after-market ones are good and some are not, like everything, it's a bit of a mine field.

 

In the way of production Gearbox Cases, I've found the earier DAM 5626 Cases amoung the strongest, but even then, you need to go through a few of them to get the best, the machining tallerances weren't great on these and it seemed they got worse as they went on. Without the right gear, it is difficult to measure the cases and even with the right gear it takes about 1 - 2 hours to properly measure up a case.

 

The Primary Gear Bushes can give trouble, but a lot of that comes down to how it's driven, ie, avoid slipping the clutch with lots of Ponies on the loose.

 

Early Idler Gears Bearings are way too small however while the A+ type are fine, however because the bearings are so much bigger, the thrusts take a real hiding - robbing Peter to pay Paul!

 

In many ways, straight cut drop gears maybe the go, if you can put up with the noise, but don't overlook helicals, they are stronger than straights,

 

With the A+ Laygear, the Layshafts seem to wear on the Big End as they only have a single bearing here, where as the pre A+ ones had two. I have had them internally ground to fit a second bearing in there and that elimiates that problem. Swifttune and Mini Speed do high quality layshafts.

 

When buying bearings, have a good look in particular at the needle rollers (all of them), many I've found these days have needles in them about 70 - 80% the length of the originals, so less support. You'll probably have to try a few suppliers before finding what you're after.

 

I loctite the Mainshaft Bearing in place, as next to the diff, the second weakest point of the gearbox is the main web, even in a DAM5626. Long ago (before the 5626's were invented), we used to modify the stock cases but adding more metal to the web, then machining the tunnel true again, as well as filling in that silly bolt hole where they used to crack from. KAD do a Mainshaft Support, which takes the place of the small end cover (that the speedo drive goes in to), these are a good idea and will help, but the Main Shafts are not strong enough at this point to take full advanage from them.

 

That's about all I can think of off the top of my head, but I know there's more!

 

It's not hard to spend as much or more on making a good gearbox as it will the engine.



#7 Guess-Works.com

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 08:02 PM

It's not power which kills the gearboxes... it's torque...

 

Nothing to add to the above, x-pin is as good as an ATB, especially in the context of drive-abilty and also various motorsports which slippers are outlawed.

 

Bottom line, if you drove the car like you stole it, then expect it to break sooner or later.. treat it with respect and service it, then it should outlast the car.






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