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The Slow Death Of Classics?


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#1 Yams

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 02:22 PM

As some of you may know I am studying graphic design, and in my final year we see a lot of live briefs. These are published by design award bodies on behalf of companies. Basically you submit work to them in the chance you may get commended for it, looks good in portfolio etc, and those who work in the creative industry get to steal your ideas and use them. its a give take relationship within reason.

 

I'm doing one by the RSA about British Heritage, and how young people in the UK are not engaging with their heritage enough, and need to be encouraged. Being a classic car lover, and knowing that the 'British Patriot' is now associated with undertones of racism it seemed that British classic cars was a good start. Throughout my research however it seemed that some thought British classic cars were dying out, which in my opinion does relate to the lack of interest the younger generation have of the past in the UK. This is my musing. I research, then i write to understand what others are tying to say, while attempting to be impartial.I find this helps my train of thought. I thought i'd post my writing on this topic here in-case any of you found it interesting.

 

Many thanks

Yams

 

From light research around the topic of British Classics, there is the underlying theory that they are slowly dying out, there stands several main reasons as to why people think the classic car legacy is fading in Britain, and further afield. However due to the RSA brief being focused on British Heritage, British cars will be my main focal point of discussion.

 

The first article I encountered was by Daniel Strohl, published in Hemmings Motor news, titled ‘The old car hobby is dying, and money is killing it‘. In the article was suggested that it isn’t the lack of a youth interest that is killing old cars, nor is the lack of parts available for them, but the idea that classic cars are no longer purchased by ‘car enthusiasts’, but by ‘collectors’. This quote from the article sums up his idea perfectly.

 

‘Yet we see the love of money trump the love of old cars even at the jeans-and-a-t-shirt end of the hobby. I can't be the only one who has observed that local cruise nights and car shows have become car corrals by another name, with for sale signs in the windows of most of the vehicles in attendance. Nor can I be the only one who sees that most of the auto-themed cable TV shows focus not on the cars' styling or engineering or history, but on how much they're worth and how much money one can make by rapidly reselling them.’

 

I can relate to this entirely. Owning a classic car myself, showing a deep interest, and keeping a keen eye on the goings on in the classic car scene, there does seem to be a mentality of what is known as fast turnarounds. Shows like wheeler dealers and classic car rescue are among the main culprits targeted at British audiences on the television, and although the notion of ‘keeping cars on the road’ is apparently the whole reason behind them, a huge portion of these shows is dedicated to the strong underpinning idea of profitability. This was also a heavy undertone with the recent series by Philip Glenister, For the Love of Cars. Although the show did go into detail about the marques, who drove them and why they were/are iconic, the final episode was dedicated to the sale of each vehicle, where they were auctioned off to a demographic aimed at collectors for huge amounts of money. Money that most of us could only dream of having to own such beautiful cars.

 

Other arguments point towards the idea that the decline and failure of the British Classic car was already firmly rooted by 1959, and that the cars produced in Britain, by British working engineers, designers and builders were sub-par, and not enough effort was focused on the most lucrative car consumer market in the world at the time, North America. Although British cars were exported to North America, such as the Austin A40, Hillman minx, and others, reliability seemed to be an issue that wasn’t addressed, nailing the coffin shut on the relationship between the American Automobile consumer market and the British export market. It appears it wasn’t just the typical English weather that our cars didn’t agree with. They seemed capable of breaking down and suffering from unreliability no matter what climate they were in. This, combined with the success of the Volkswagen (beetle) definitely helped kill the British export market in the USA. This argument does make sense, but whether or not we have this to blame for our fading of British classics ‘now’ could be debatable.

 

And finally, the idea that classic cars just aren’t interesting to the younger generation today. The article by Ashley Halsey for drive.com educates us on this matter, where it gets straight to the point with how the youth are more ‘interested in terabytes than cubic inches’. In the article he touches on the idea that young people now have the internet, which acts as a social space, opposed to the good old days when you drove your car to socialise and share you passions. He says “younger people seem more interested in fiddling on the Internet than under the hood, and they’re finding it provides more ways to get around than ever before.” He also notes that “hot cars once were a teenage status symbol, but now four wheels matter most as a way to the shops.”

 

I find this argument compelling, however I personally think that a major tipping point isn’t the idea that the internet is more interesting, more the fact the internet is easier to use. I’m currently re-building an engine for my classic mini to make it go faster, and make it more reliable. I am no engineer, but I feel I do have enough mechanical skills and patience to take on the challenge. I can also build computers, the computer I’m using right now to type this on was assembled by yours truly. I am definitely no computer wizard, but putting the computer together was far easier than re-building an engine.

 

In my opinion people have a tendency (most of the time) to go in the direction of least resistance. Cars are getting more and more advanced (so they tell us), which is daunting when something does go wrong with them. There is also the idea that cars are not ‘human functions’. As drivers we hold our steering wheels with a sense of familiarity, however are they intuitive in the same way that to scroll down a web page on a tablet you simply swipe the desired direction? Many in our day in age, be it young or old, seem to know how to navigate the screen of an Ipad with ease, but struggle and faff about when they need to access their bonnet release.

 

Perhaps it is all of these reasons that classic cars are apparently dying out. Be it collectors who horde cars away like fairy-tale dragons and their treasure. The fact that British cars are simply not worth keeping alive in the eyes of some due to their unreliability and the poor decisions made by the British auto-industry fat-cats in the 50s and 60s, or the fact that we are so wrapped up with what’s coming next that we simply forget or are uninspired by the inventions of the past. Either way many would argue that their past-time is not dying out, but we’ll just have to see.

 

 



#2 Mini-Mad-Craig

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 02:43 PM

Some of us will love them and some of us won't and that's how it is I guess. I fell in love with the Mini at a young age for no real reason. Ever since I was around 3 years old my Hotwheels Mini was always the favourite. The addiction then begins. I don't think it's less of an interest in classic cars, they are still VERY much alive and kicking in the UK. The NEC proved that a few weekends ago, so will any Mini meet you go to. If a few thousand Minis turn up to a show like Brooklands in March, sure there will be the Cooper S's, the totally original Riley Elfs, and the likes, but how many of the mini owners do you think are under 30? I bet most of them. We're a country that loves our classic cars. I think we're living in the perfect time for classic cars now. Whilst even the humble Mini is getting far more expensive than it ever was, the aftermarket support and evolution of products is ridiculous, you can get anything of the shelf, in a good quality, and you can for the first time ever actually make these cars reliable.

 

And I don't think the quality or unreliability of these cars is ever an area of uninterest. I think in a way which totally relates to Traumatic bonding, this is just something which makes you feel even more at one with your car. It doesn't matter what it is, if you've put your heart and soul into it, it becomes more real to you, it becomes more than just metal, it's almost a living entity in itself. When you persevere with something you definitely become one with it, and I think with an old car that's important, because it'd otherwise be easy to give up.

 

So I think overall whilst it may seem that there isn't as much interest in classic cars amongst younger people these days, it's just a sign of the times. Of course there are people like the guy that lives in our shared student house, he wakes up at 3pm, goes to bed at 4am, and all of those hours are filled with his PC and video games.

 

I think the idea of having a car that you can't rely on to start to some is totally mad. The thought of being uncomfortable, being drafty and cold with a terrible heater and wet carpets, but that's the charm of a classic. Those that don't understand probably own a brand new Fiesta ST or something similar, it's easy to forget that these people were around back then too, the difference is, the cars they drove at the time were brand new.


Edited by Mini-Mad-Craig, 02 December 2014 - 02:49 PM.


#3 mab01uk

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 07:52 PM

A classic car as long lived in production as the Mini transcends several generations of owners so will still be of interest to some of the 20 year old owners of today when they are in their 60's and 70's. The Mini also has the advantage of staying 'current' in the eyes of todays motorists and new owners because of the modern MINI continuing the marques success into the future.

 

However a classic car like the Morris Minor or MGB is already suffering from a marked lack of interest amongst younger owners as the last generations of people who owned them in their 20's as familiar everyday cars are now enthusiasts in their 50's and beyond.....you won't see many 20 year olds owning or driving them as classics today or in the future. The seeds are sown for many long term hobbies and interests in our formative years, especially those in later life which people return to with nostalgia when they have more time and money to indulge in them.

 

Encouraging the next generation of classic car enthusiasts:-

The Morris Minor Owner’s Club, which has set up a specific section within the club to cater for younger members. Matt Tomkins, Chairman of the club’s Young Members Register, said: “We’re heavily involved with promoting the entire classic car scene to the younger generation, having spoken at a number of events.”

While some clubs suffer from stagnating or even dwindling memberships, those that look to embrace young members look set to flourish. The youngsters are the future of the classic car movement, bringing with them a wider and wider selection of cars into the scene and with them the enthusiasm needed to keep the scene alive for years to come."

http://www.necclassi...next-generation


Edited by mab01uk, 02 December 2014 - 11:51 PM.


#4 Bubblebobble

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 08:47 PM

If anything 'classic' cars are becoming more popular , as Jay Leno once said , they will one day be something that we save up for a but of highly expensive petrol to take out once it a while .  The problem i see amongst below 35 year olds , is having somewhere to store and maintain them . More people live in flats with or without a space , and many houses have no garage or they have been converted .



#5 Black.Ghost

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 09:48 PM

I think there are some interesting points made by all here. I've not looked at any numbers to indicate whether classic ownership is falling or not amongst younger owners, but it's not too hard to see why it might be falling. When you are young, the majority of people simply do not have the money, or the desire to spend a higher proportion of their money, on a classic car. There are so many cars around below £1000 that are cheap to run and maintain that it gives them more money for the other things in life. Who wants to spend considerably more maintaining and running an older car? It's a limited interest market in an era where people want everything straight away, and almost everything in life is disposable and not built to last more than a few years. 

 

It's really quite difficult to understand the changes in classic car ownership - after all how can you possibly compare it to the 60s, unless you have accurate figures for how many people were driving classics. What constituted a classic car in 1960s Britain - stuff from the 30s and 40s, or were some of the early 50s car in there as well? To see how the number have changed over the decades will take some analysis.

 

The availability of social media means people are always online in one form or another - be it a forum like this or Facebook, it gives people a lot less time to spend on cars. And besides, a smart phone is a much more valuable commodity to a teenager these days than a car is.

 

Things like EU regulations won't help matters either. Cars are becoming cleaner and more efficient, and this is the message constantly being pushed on to us. It is a good thing in the main, but it does mean that there will naturally be less demand for the older cars that drink more petrol, kick out more gases, and take a lot more effort to keep on the road. 

 

As for me personally, I'd love a classic as a daily driver. But I have only just got the girlfriend to embrace the Mini, let alone something like an MGB or Morris Minor. We already have 3 cars, and she hates that.



#6 Cooperman

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 10:09 PM

In the '60's when I was young(er) the classic car movement was far smaller and more select than it is now. A few had things like the Austin 7 and Morris 8, but they were not cherished. I do recall a guy with whom I worked doing a restoration on a 1929 Rolls-Royce, but not many were interested unless they wanted to compete in vintage and veteran racing. There was no 'historic' rallying as there is today with a lot of young people involved.

 

Now there are many young people involved in classic car owning, restoring and driving. Look at the young people on here as an example. My Grandson was brought up on Mini restoration, plus some other stuff like a Triumph 2000, and he is now restoring an MGB-GT to 'mint & original' condition. He is even looking for a period Motorola radio and a pair of Lucas spotlights. I'll do him an engine with c.120 bhp which will be fine for an otherwise standard car. Many of his friends are interested as well.

 

The problem is becoming one of affordability, but there are still some affordable cars in addition to the classic Mini. The Anglia, MGB & MGB-GT, the Sprite/Midget (Mk.2 onwards), VW Beetle and Ford 100E from the '60's. then there are the later soon-to-be real classics like the Golf GTi Mk.2, early Fiesta, Viva, Escort Mk.3, BMW E30, etc. They are restorable and will be accepted by the classic car movement sooner or later. I'm sure we could think of lots more in the soon-to-be category.

 

One problem might be the shrinking skill base to restore these cars, but that is another issue. Those who can build/restore the bodies and engines will be in ever-increasing demand.



#7 Bubblebobble

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 10:14 PM

Its always changing so much , like the people who would have been into vintage pre war stuff are popping there clogs , as well as the same starting to happen with the MG set . And its about the age group with disposable income , the , say , 38 to 55 years olds .



#8 mab01uk

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 10:45 PM

The recent 'scrappage' scheme in 2009 has caused a shortage of some cheaper used cars, especially as many were traded in by older owners who tend to have the lower mileage, well maintained cars that survive longer into the future to become classics. This could have some effect on the supply and demand for future potential classic cars from the 1980's and 90's?........sadly including the loss of 702 classic Mini's. :ohno:

 

Full listings of all the cars scrapped here:-
https://www.gov.uk/g...-scheme-in-2009


Edited by mab01uk, 02 December 2014 - 10:47 PM.


#9 MaxAndPaddy

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 10:59 PM

I think the mini is an unusual classic, in that unlike your MGBs, Healey's, etc it still despite its age, transcends ages boundaries and appeals to both older owners nostalgic for the old days and new drivers looking for something different. Our 17 year old has his 850 resto which he is desperate to get on the road and we have our pampered summer drives.

 

As prices go up then the youngers are going to find it more difficult but for now I think the future of the classic mini is good, and the popularity of the BINI is still a taster for people

 

You couldn't say that about a Frogeye Sprite or a Austin Healey, even though I love those cars as well, they don't evoke the same reaction



#10 Cooperman

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 12:13 AM

The thing about the Mini is that they made it over such a long period, just as happened with the VW Beetle. So the age range of those who remember them from childhood and who, maybe, wanted one when they were small covers a long time span and several generations. I can remember the day the Mini was launched in August 1959 and I wanted one.

The Beetle covers an even longer period and more were made, so they are an icon and are still affordable.

The MGB is also an icon in the UK and the USA and like the Mini is still affordable. The parts are also all easily available. I am guessing that one reason the Mini and Beetle are so popular with younger people is because they can insure them at 17-years-old, unlike some other classics. Imagine a 17-year-old trying to insure an MGB with alloy wheels and some minor engine improvements - almost impossible probably.

There are some other good classics for younger people. The Hillman Imp is great and still affordable.

Personally I would love a Healey 3000, but they are a lot of money. I once bought one whilst on holiday in California. It was a rust-free restoration project and I shipped it back intending to build a very well prepared historic rally car. Then I did a rally in my Cooper 'S' and I caught a Healey 3000 driven quickly by a good friend of mine, Richard Hudson-Evans, and afterwards I asked him if he was driving flat out. he admitted he was and that the Healey didn't have the sheer pace of my Mini, so I sold my Healey (for a small profit) and kept the 'S' for competition.

The advantage of the Mini is its ease of restoration, the available & low-cost parts and the fact that it is, for the Brits, probably the ultimate classic. The disadvantage is that it is not ideal to drive on a long journey and there are better classic for that. The Rover P6 range, for example, drive almost like modern cars, especially the V8 versions, and they are still affordable. The 3500S is a beautiful car to drive on a long journey, especially with the power steering option.

Most classic cars are a lot of fun and I am looking forward to doing a long road trip with my grandson in the MGB-GT when it is finished. We are already talking about a tour in the French Alps over those classic passes used on international rallies.

What other classic do those on here think about owning and running?



#11 Tubby1987

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 01:20 AM

I think the mini is an unusual classic, in that unlike your MGBs, Healey's, etc it still despite its age, transcends ages boundaries and appeals to both older owners nostalgic for the old days and new drivers looking for something different. Our 17 year old has his 850 resto which he is desperate to get on the road and we have our pampered summer drives.

 

As prices go up then the youngers are going to find it more difficult but for now I think the future of the classic mini is good, and the popularity of the BINI is still a taster for people

 

You couldn't say that about a Frogeye Sprite or a Austin Healey, even though I love those cars as well, they don't evoke the same reaction

It's funny you say this as I have the same thought you do.

I think the Mini is one of the only classics where an 18 year old would still look in place, it's still seen as a 'cool' car to drive. Put an 18 year old in say a Morris Minor or an old MG, things are pretty different.

Younger people should try a classic though even just for insurance purposes, it's half the cost for insurance in most cases. A modern car for me to insure with 3 points is around or above £500 a year, my mayfair is £160 a year.

 

Not to mention I love the smell of petrol when I start my Mini's up on a cold morning, having to wrap up as you need the windows down for the misty windows, checking various parts each week to maintain it. Keeps you busy but feels rewarding knowing it works because you make it work :-)



#12 Ethel

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 02:10 AM

It's a good point about the "Wheeler Dealer" types shows. I don't doubt that'll have some influence, but the format has more to do with economics and practicalities of making telly programs. If they buy 'em the have to dispose of 'em somehow. In a way it's good because the sums are evidently way off stacking up if you add the cost of the premises, power & consumables, and hours spent.

 

The MINI, Fiat 500 and Beetle have millions spent on them to convince young trendy professionals that they are cool, desirable, cars like their predecessors. The Ad men can't do that without also promoting the originals to today's car buyers.



#13 Ben_O

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 05:53 AM

If i am honest, i had no real interest in Classic cars at all as a teenager.

 

I was into cars but not particularly Mini's or any classic for that matter but i took a keen interest in panel work and it was suggested i bought a Mini because at the time, you could buy a complete running car for £50.

I bought one, then another, then another and soon had 5!

Eventually sold them all and ended up with an 89 City which was in fantastic condition and was going to be my 1st car after i passed my test but i wanted something more like my mates had so sold it on.

Over the next few years, i went from hot hatches to 90's Mercs and all manor of other cars in between and never actually had a Mini on the road to drive and still no real interest in them.

It wasn't until one of my old Mini's came up for sale years later (my 25 :-) ) that i had to buy it back as it meant something to me but that was as far as it went. Not particularly because it was a classic or even because it was a Mini.

 

I was searching up on the internet trying to find stories of other Mini restorations to help me and came across a rubbish Mini forum called Minifinity which i was a member of for about a week and then i found TMF.

 

I firmly believe that it is other enthusiasts that keep the classic car movement alive because since joining TMF I have got to know some really fantastic people and it is those people who got me interested in the Mini as a classic car scene and it has genuinely given me a firm interest in it.

 

Now i love the classic Mini, the people and the whole classic scene of it.

 

I think those that are not interested are not because perhaps they just don't appreciate everything that goes with the ownership, they just see classics as a load of old rubbish that will cause nothing but trouble and empty their wallets.

 

Ok perhaps some of that is true but i love it all.

 

Just my 2 pennies worth...

 

Ben



#14 Montytom

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 07:47 AM

I think classic cars have pockets-ie on the Isle of Wight you see loads of them.

Me personally I use my Rover 75 as a classic on a classic policy even though its a 99 on a V plate.

 

When I have the space in the hopefully near future Id like a Mini (even if i dont have the space a mini could fit somewhere)

Also maybe a Rover P6 as a daily driver.

We need to be proud of what we have built rather than be sheep and buy the latest German tat(in my opinion)



#15 mab01uk

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 12:51 PM

I think classic cars have pockets-ie on the Isle of Wight you see loads of them.

Me personally I use my Rover 75 as a classic on a classic policy even though its a 99 on a V plate.

 

When I have the space in the hopefully near future Id like a Mini (even if i dont have the space a mini could fit somewhere)

Also maybe a Rover P6 as a daily driver.

We need to be proud of what we have built rather than be sheep and buy the latest German tat(in my opinion)

 

The British car industry is currently very successful and back to 1970's production levels......its just that most of it is now foreign owned and run more efficiently with investment in development of new models.

 

Don't a lot of Rover 75's have latest 'German tat' under the bonnet? :lol:






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