14 replies to this topic

[wile e coyote]

Evening all - want to fit an electric facet fuel pump  - but electrics not exactly my strong suit! - have all the bits and have indulged in a bit of a back of a fag packet drawing - hoping this'll work but confirmation or correction gratefully received before I get cracking.....

 

http://i1300.photobu...zpsbqev1cva.jpg

 

wondering to fit a fuel tap at fuel tank end to make changing fuel filter a simple proposition.....

 

Cheers

Edited by wile e coyote, 09 June 2015 - 08:57 PM.

[KernowCooper]

Your not showing 85-86 on the repay connected ? Are you saying 30 into the relay is a ignition feed?

 

86 would be the 12v trigger from the ignition switch

85 is earth

30 is 12v supply into the relay

87 is 12v out

 

There is a screw in micron filter which screws into the cube type pump intake so I dont think you'll need another one before the Carb.

 

Me I would put the fuse on the 12v supply into terminal 30 not after, general ruling we were taught at Lucas was to keep the fuse as close to the feed, as any wiring up to the fuse is unprotected, I had a Capri in with a electric fan, which had the fuse 2ft away from the supply and that wire rubbed through on the radiator cowling and burnt out, the fuse 2ft away did nothing.

Edited by KernowCooper, 09 June 2015 - 11:15 PM.

[Ethel]

I wouldn't bother with a tap if this is a solid state pump on the rear subby, one less thing to go wrong. Just be ready to plug the hose.

 

If you're fitting a regulator put it close to the carb, no need for more than one filter, which is best before the pump.

[zerobelow]

If you're fitting a regulator put it close to the carb, no need for more than one filter, which is best before the pump.

Actually, electric fuel pumps generally aren't good at "sucking", they are better at pushing. They usually want to be as close to the fuel tank as possible. So, while having unfiltered fuel in the pump,it is likely to be more reliable than putting a filter first. 

 

The order should be: tank->pump (as close as possible, and below the level of the tank if possible)->fuel filter->pressure regulator(optional but a good idea. If installed, this should be as close to the carb as possible). 

[wile e coyote]

Many thanks folks - relay connections / fuse positioning  aside all looks good to go - yep the fuel pump has the prefilter but I thought I worthwhile to put a sacrificial cheapie between tank and pump on the basis one is 99p and readily available from just about anywhere - the other.....tricky to get hold of in a hurry...conscious I may have gone filter mad in the plan!

 

Maybe not ideal but am looking to locate the pump on the boot floor at the tank base rather than the preferred location of bracket mounted to the subframe..

 

I have the boggo standard facet pump - think it only puts out sub 4lb of pressure - but have a new systec regulator picked up for a quid off fleabay so it's going in regardless!

 

Later development of plan will be a back up fuel pump and the RH tank....but this'll do for now.....just got to find where I put the mech pump blanking plate....

 

Going to be indulging in a fair few modernising electical projects so be warned more fag packet diagrams to come!

 

Cheers

[Ethel]

The proper facet filter is only a few quid, cheap enough to carry a spare. Like Zero said, they tend not to suck well (I actually think the issue is trapped air acting as a damper, the location wouldn't matter if you were only dealing with non-compressible liquid) so I wouldn't add more bits to upset the feed path.

 

I'm not sure about running 2 pumps, they sense pressure drop to switch themselves on, so going head to head they could switch each other off.

 

Probably why SU came up with this

 

instead of 2 of these

[Dusky]

Fit it on the subframe and prefilter is mandatory.

[wile e coyote]

Cheers Ethel - wasn't envisaging operating two pumps simultaneously, car is being reworked from a rattly but fun noisy screamer into a far more sedate long legged cruiser .....was thinking about fitting two pumps on a selector switch to ensure functional redundancy....

 

...Was unhappy about having the pump in the boot nice bit of scrap ally has made a rather nice mount with a 2" turn up on the edge to protect the pump....

[KernowCooper]

As Dusky said a pre filter is a must its the single biggest cause of Facet pump failure and they wont honour the warranty without one. If you dont want the pump in the boot get a Morris 1000 su type

Edited by KernowCooper, 10 June 2015 - 09:11 PM.

[wile e coyote]

Thanks guys - all fitted rather easily and neatly - pump is on a shielded mount on the subframe, and yep the facet block pump has the prefilter but stuck to original plan and put a filter between tank & prefilter - seems utterly fine (deleted the one originally planned for close to carb) - buzzer to remind to turn pump on is already annoying!

[zerobelow]

I did some looking, and it is correct to have a prefilter for your fuel pump (my electric fuel pump had one included). However, you are explicitly not supposed to have a fine fuel filter before the pump.

 

I didn't see specific articles for the facet, but from some other sites, including another fuel pump manufacturer:

 

http://aeromotiveinc...uel-filtration/

What about a fine filter?  They are also necessary, but must be installed on the outlet side of your Aeromotive fuel pump, never on the inlet.

 

http://www.superchev...or-fuel-system/

Fuel filter type and placement are critical to achieving the proper fuel pressure and volume being delivered to the carburetor. A high-flow, fine-element fuel filter should be used between the fuel pump and carburetor on the pressure side, not between the tank and the pump on the suction side. Between the tank and the pump you'll want to run a coarse-filter screen no finer than 100-micron. This is because as a pump pushes, it also has to pull, and when a pump has to pull too hard to acquire fuel through a restrictive filter, a vacuum or low-pressure area develops at the inlet. To be sure of the specs for your fuel filter, always check with the fuel pump's manufacturer for a recommendation. A more restrictive filter on the suction side of the pump may fail to flow the full volume of the pump, which can result in cavitation at the pump inlet.

 

Also, in a web search, I noticed people referencing this info from the instructions that came with their facet fuel pumps, however I could not find an electronic copy of those instructions from facet or elsewhere.

[Cooperman]

On my 'S' I run twin FACET pumps piped in parallel under the rear seat panel inside the sub-frame.

They are wired separately, switched separately, have separate fuses and separate earth connections.

Out of the petrol tanks, which are joined by a balance pipe and a Tee-piece, there is one pipe going to another Tee-piece, then into the pumps, then another Tee-piece after the pumps to the main pipe running to the fuel regulator just before the carbs, then to the twin H4 carbs.

So I can run with one or two pumps on at any one time.

This makes for fail-safe reliability.

FACET filters are fitted as part of the pump between the tank and the pump.

Edited by Cooperman, 10 June 2015 - 11:07 PM.

[nicklouse]

FACET filters are fitted as part of the pump between the tank and the pump.

Exactly. On the red and sliver tops it is an internal one and on the square ones it is a screw on external one.

And as mentioned a regulator close to the carb(s) can include another filter as well if you wish.

[peter-b]

 pliers.jpg   29.21K   1 downloads  $_57.jpg   33.88K   0 downloadsAs a roadside service guy I see the 2 filter idea a lot........it doesn't work. The crud just blocks the first one and the car stops, second one serves no purpose.

 

grap a set of those plastic hose crimpers and dont worry about tap.

 

 

 

If you want a prefilter filter, get a fine guaze water trap with clear body. Works better, no real restriction*, you can see dirt/water in it.

 

*unless its full of crud, in which case it's doing its job and you can clean it.

 

Sorry about pictures, I fix cars not computers.

 

 

[KernowCooper]

As mentioned by Cooperman and nicklouse the Facet pump needs a filter between tank inlet and pump to keep fine particles out of the internals.On the red and sliver tops it is an internal one and on the square ones it is a screw on external one.

 

If you have that much crud in the tank it blocking the filter on the pump inlet you have tank issues or bad fuel, if the filter was removed on the cube type the pumps going to eat it and die