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Deceleration - Almost There But Not Quite Yet


Best Answer ryomini , 25 June 2015 - 05:46 AM

 

Final post

hehehehehehehe

ehehehehe

ehehehe

ehehe

 

 

eehehehe

 

ehehehe

 

naoshita

 

(PS could have done it in 5 mins if I had paid more attention to sprocket and spiguy, but had to do what I had to anyway so nothing was in vain)

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#1 ryomini

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 10:17 AM

Yop,

 

thanks for reading - I have just got my jap mpi / spi year2000 mayfair back to running

after renewing all the vacuum hose connectors

the first couple of outings were good

but today this is what happened

 

when I declerate the car holds the same rpm for a long time and slows down very slowly if you see what I mean

then when you come to a standstill the revs go very slowly from 1300 to 1100 and then to 900 and occasionaly it just stalls

 

I don't think the vacuum lines are at fault anymore, the rich running has stopped and the plugs are burning tan

could it be oily residue and carbon deposits left in the piston chambers ??? (I doubt it)

 

can't think of what to check from here



#2 scrumpix

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 12:09 PM

make sure you haven't pushed the vacuum lines on too far and blocked the holes



#3 ryomini

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 12:16 PM

scrumpix

yep yep checked them many many times and getting a feel for that

they do seem horrifically sensitive -



#4 thedjse

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 12:25 PM

How about the throttle spring i had this issue we got another spring and it now returns very well.



#5 ryomini

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 11:29 PM

Yes

I was beginning to even think about the carpet, sometimes that even catches under the pedal

but yes you are absolutely right I will get some lube and grease out and check over those areas asap



#6 peter-b

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 11:43 PM

I have the same issue so I'll be watch here. Same model, exactly same problem. I've checked everything, even took stepper motor apart, cleaned and lubed it. The whole SPI system would be in the skip except the stupid TD rules says it has to stay. Its made the whole grand plan go a$$ up. I bought a late model so I could have a user friendly FI car, and its that part that's caused the most issues. I've come to the conclusion the systems crap.

#7 ryomini

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 04:02 AM

Peter

don't give up yet

I was going nuts mainly because I don't work much on my mini and so I don't know it as well as I should

but the learning is great

I found the rubber boots to be my main issue - they caused horrific rich running and the problems escalate from there

I just lubed up my pedal from under the carpet there are a few places where it can get stiff

I lubed up the whole throttle mechanism and the accelerator cable

 

will feedback after next run

 

what I've learned is be methodical, change one thing - test, change another thing - test and so on.  Eliminating step by step.

my problem was my exhaust pipe corroded through, my seat broke, one of my plugs the ceramic broke, I took a bad compression reading, and I didn't realise that nearly all my rubber connector boots were duff

 

I'm pretty close now.  If I can do it then you can do it twice as fast that is for sure ;)



#8 peter-b

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 06:20 AM

I started by changing the temp sender, it had failed, then the throttle position sensor. Still the same, new throttle cable, removed cleaned and tested manifold heater, had throttle stepper motor tested by injection specialist, found nothing. I cleaned and lubed the rest of that section. Had car Mems tested, failed temp sender.....again, replaced. Had ecu tested and was told it could be wiring degradation. Tried making a new EFI wiring harness but canned that idea when i found NOS harness in France of all places. I put that in and lo and behold ....... no difference.

I've been tempted to fit aftermarket FI, but thats even more money. The amount I've spent, not including my labour, I could have bought brand new twin SU's, fitted and tuned, and had money left over for a beer or twelve. It's got to the point where if it burst into flames on the highway, I'd just sit back and watch. It's drivable ok but only with the idle adjusted manually to a set RPM, but thats a pain when cold and in some situations.    



#9 spiguy

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 10:16 AM

I started by changing the temp sender, it had failed, then the throttle position sensor. Still the same, new throttle cable, removed cleaned and tested manifold heater, had throttle stepper motor tested by injection specialist, found nothing. I cleaned and lubed the rest of that section. Had car Mems tested, failed temp sender.....again, replaced. Had ecu tested and was told it could be wiring degradation. Tried making a new EFI wiring harness but canned that idea when i found NOS harness in France of all places. I put that in and lo and behold ....... no difference.

I've been tempted to fit aftermarket FI, but thats even more money. The amount I've spent, not including my labour, I could have bought brand new twin SU's, fitted and tuned, and had money left over for a beer or twelve. It's got to the point where if it burst into flames on the highway, I'd just sit back and watch. It's drivable ok but only with the idle adjusted manually to a set RPM, but thats a pain when cold and in some situations.    

wow, that's a real pain you have had there. I've never had anything like that thankfully, and have found the FI on the SPi to be really good. I have had some faults, but easily remedied. Can't think what on earth is going on with yours that after all that it is still the same :ohno:

 

 

Yop,

 

thanks for reading - I have just got my jap mpi / spi year2000 mayfair back to running

after renewing all the vacuum hose connectors

the first couple of outings were good

but today this is what happened

 

when I declerate the car holds the same rpm for a long time and slows down very slowly if you see what I mean

then when you come to a standstill the revs go very slowly from 1300 to 1100 and then to 900 and occasionaly it just stalls

 

I don't think the vacuum lines are at fault anymore, the rich running has stopped and the plugs are burning tan

could it be oily residue and carbon deposits left in the piston chambers ??? (I doubt it)

 

can't think of what to check from here

In relation to the OP's issue above, if it was me I would be looking at stepper motor or throttle linkage issues.

 

Personally I would do the following. Clean and lubricate the throttle linkages, making sure there is no build up of gunk in the throttle body area, and also whilst there check that there isn't play on the throttle spindle which could cause random mixture issues. Also pop the stepper motor pin out (rubber boot off and it just pops out) and clean and lubricate the hole and the pin. Check the throttle cable is correctly adjusted too. The gap on either side of the lost motion linkage should be equal.

 

If still no better, then I would wait until the engine was idling at a nice level, say about 900-1000 RPM - should do that as the engine gets about half way to being warm, then disconnect the stepper motor connector. Having done that, the only things that can influence throttle position are the mechanical aspects - throttle pedal, throttle cable, throttle linkage etc. If the problem goes away then that points to the stepper motor, which can have issues with dry solder joints or failing motor coils.

 

The above suggestions assume there are no vac leaks anywhere, the throttle position sensor has been checked and is working well with no 'spiky' readings over it's travel (usually they wear worst around the idle / part throttle position) and the O2 sensor is known to be working well with good voltage swings at a reasonable rate of change.

 

I can understand why people dislike the FI minis, it's a different ball game that's for sure, however it is a very good system (partly let down by poor Rover wiring) and in my experience is every bit as, if not more reliable than 'modern' FI systems. Lets see how modern euroboxes are doing when they get to 20+ years old - I expect they will all be suffering engine management issues a plenty!

 

Really sympathise with peter though, I wish there was some way I could help you sort it out!



#10 ryomini

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 10:44 AM

Yep Pete

sorry to hear about your ongoing woes -

makes you hate a car / bike when it does that, gremlins - need to find them and neuralise them

 

@spiguy  stepper motor test trick is an excellent idea to eliminate that issue

 

I guess I should hunt down the code reader for long term maintainance - got any suggestions and price ideas - people say they are not cheap

(prolly won't get time to test until next week will update then)



#11 peter-b

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 11:20 PM

There's only the one problem, the idle control. It just doesn't work. As I said, I have adjusted the idle using the screw that contacts the plunger. I s'pose I can live with it but it does take the edge off the pleasure of driving. When I really sit down and think about it, its more the fact that it's a relatively simple system and I can't fix it 100%.
I know i might be getting on in years but being a roadside service man I have to keep up with technology, otherwise i might as well give the job away. Compared to the mini system, the modern day car is more hi tech than the damn space shuttle. The SPI mini has stuff all in the way of parts and i've either replaced or tested each bit.

#12 Blatherskite

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Posted 20 June 2015 - 07:52 PM

Did you read all the Injection posts on the sub-site about injection issurs? If I recall right, messing with the idle isn't just to adjust the idle screw as for a carb mini. There's a great deal of good stuff from Sprocket (I have a link to that specially), so go check. Good luck!

#13 peter-b

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 10:21 AM

Normally you wouldn't adjust the idle with it as the stepper motor does it for you. Mine, the stepper motor doesn't 'step' so it just idled at 1500 rpm all the time.

#14 ryomini

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 07:33 AM

*UPDATE*

 

took off the fuel filter and the car runs better, idle is sitting better at 950 and not as wobbly as before

 

BUT car is STILL running super rich,

if you start the car and let it idle you can literally watch the soot build up in the tail pipe - scary

 

the exhaust now has the occassional 'pop'

but the car stalls a lot less and runs a little better - so still not there

 

dropped the temp sensor today and it looks to be in v good nick

 

will do same with lambda IF I can get it out - ughhhh



#15 ryomini

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 11:27 AM

*UDATE*

 

back to square one - car stalls so much now I can't take it out

one guy on another forum had 2 issues that he found after weeks of hassle and replacing almost everything in the fuel management  system

 

finally

 

"Haggard, as Nozzle says most of what I can tell you is in here. You say you have the same issues but I had two seperate issues at the same time, erratic idle & running rich, which is it youre suffering? The running rich was a badly worn engine bay harness full of broken wires, the idle was the ecu fault not operating the stepper motor. I'll reply to your pm when I'm not at work later."

 

he had shorts in his harness - do you think I should check if I have a bad earth ?

 

when I pulled the lambda relay out to check if it was corroded it sparked when I put it back in so there could be a wire that is shorting back there - and it's true those wires to that relay are tight  - you can only just pull the black part off of the engine bay

 

his other problem was only sorted by having the ECU unit checked - om goodness over here in Japan ain't got a clue where I could do that - my only other option will be to swap out an ECU with another very willing mini owner or pick up a used known working element

 

I have read quite a few threads now where people have had this trouble, have taken their car to several garagists, have changed many parts, tidied up lots of bits and have taken ages to get it fixed,

 

personally I'm leaning toward the lambda at the moment being (aside the TPS sensor) one of the sensors that I haven't removed

 

for me this Spi is really voodoo stuff now - and like so many others just gets worse the more you try to solve it - ughh






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