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Suspension Compressor, Interference With Hi-Lo Cones, Usual Poor Design ?


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#1 MontpellierVanMan

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 09:35 AM

Just thought I'd throw this out to see if there's something I've not grasped.

 

Or if it's just another example of "Thick Mini Owners Don't Deserve Any Better - And Won't Notice".

 

Using my (probably Chinese Copy) version of this tool, bought recently from one of the Usual Suspects, I was struck how badly designed it was ; I think my original Sykes-Pickavant version was the same, so just another case of poor design being perpetrated down through the generations ................

 

DSC09533_zpssn8b26lr.jpg

 

1. The threads are ridiculously coarse for the load that it's expected to furnish, and the torque that needs applying through the butterfly is unnecessarily high as a consequence.

 

2. The thrust faces are poorly machined, the exaggerated taper on the nose of the tube is guaranteed to increase the tendency for the two surfaces to gall and grab.

 

3. The threads on the main spigot are preposterously long for the job - only about 1/4 of their length ever gets used.

 

Is there a more intelligent version available anywhere ?

 

Furthermore, the Hi-Lo cones I bought from another Usual Suspect seem to have been designed by someone who never actually uses/fits them.

 

The adjustable spigot is way too long in practice (unless you're trying to make a Monster Truck with 18"" wheels ?) and sits very high up inside the trumpet - in fact SO high that the first thing that happens when you screw the spring compressor through the rubber cone is that its nose stamps out - very neatly it has to be said ! - a hole in the thoughtful plastic cover ........... that is meant to keep water out of the cone.

 

DSC09530_zpso2ubor8n.jpg

 

Even with the tap-like nose of the mandrel cut off (see picture) to reduce the problem, you're still guaranteed to hit the cover.

 

DSC09532_zps5wwmdbly.jpg

 

Equally daft is that, with the adjustable spigot sitting so high inside the trumpet, it makes it even more awkward to re-install the trumpet and ball-joint back into place - you end up compressing the suspension far more than you'd like just to give yourself more height ............... because the design is crap.

 

DSC09534_zpshkakmvkr.jpg

 

Solution : cut 20mm off the spigot ............... makes no difference to the strength, and I defy anyone to require that much adjustment to set their ride-height ; my Van, even on 12" wheels, is set on the "tall" side, and even with 20mm missing I'm nowhere near running out of threads.

 

DSC09531_zpsljz7uquw.jpg

 

I've got a couple of dozen other examples of crap parts, badly designed or executed, that I've bought from the Usual Suspect Suppliers over the last 4 years - do we not have a Rogues Gallery anywhere on the Forum where we can warn other Members of the stuff that is being peddled ?

 

 

 



#2 Spider

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 10:03 AM

Here's my compressor tool, I made it probably 15 years ago, nice and easy to use

 

HydSuspCompWM_zpsvxpeoyuu.jpg

 

but cost around 5 - 10 times the screw type ones, so not really affordable to most home users.

 

I did improve on the screw type one though by adding a thrust bearing (which only cost a few buck), it took a lot of wear off the thread and did make the tool much easier to use.

 

In regards to many Hilos, while many are used for lower ride hight, there are also many of use who use them for raising the ride hight (they are call HiLo short for High - Low) after all. When I use them (and my travelling companions), at our desired setting, the ones we use have full thread engagement in the main body with about 4 mm to spare, we've found this allows for settling that occurs to us over about our average 4 - 5 week trip.

 

<EDIT: The 'Crap' Hilos and cones that you seem to have there ^ look like they come from Mini Sport (UK) and so from my experience of their 'Crap' I'd expect nothing less.>


Edited by Moke Spider, 11 October 2015 - 10:07 AM.


#3 nicklouse

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 10:52 AM

Never ever seen one if those plastic cover things? Would not have been any good for my High lows as you could not get the adjuster tool in.


Looks like who ever "designed" your adjustable cones never bothered to consider the service tool that was designed and produced many many years ago.

So I would say you have got your facts wrong.

And I seam to remember having to use quite a bit of the thread on standard set ups.

#4 Blatherskite

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 06:27 PM

Never ever seen one if those plastic cover things? Would not have been any good for my High lows as you could not get the adjuster tool in.


Looks like who ever "designed" your adjustable cones never bothered to consider the service tool that was designed and produced many many years ago.

So I would say you have got your facts wrong.

And I seam to remember having to use quite a bit of the thread on standard set ups.


Just fitted Minisport HiLos, and agree with you, Nicklouse; used quite a bit of the threaded rod, and the hilos don't look like the ones above. No plastic cover punching, even at lowest position.

I wonder who thought the metric thread was a good idea, though. It took a bit of swinging on the spanner to get proper compression, though.

#5 adam_93rio

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 08:15 PM

I don't understand what the problem is, fitting new cones with hilos is easy. Wind them down, slot it in then adjust it back out.
I don't understand why you need to use a spring compressor to with hilos

#6 Spider

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 12:09 AM

I don't understand what the problem is, fitting new cones with hilos is easy. Wind them down, slot it in then adjust it back out.
I don't understand why you need to use a spring compressor to with hilos

 

In all fairness, with some Hilos, you still need a compressor. The particular one I use I need to compress the cones for.



#7 Coxie

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 05:35 AM

Don't think it's a design fault with the tool it's just that we have changed the design of the car by fitting hi-los

#8 dklawson

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 12:10 PM

I also have a homemade compressor.  It uses M14 threaded rod for the whole length because that was easier than cutting threads in both ends of a solid steel shaft.  I did include greased washers as thrust bearings in my design.  With the thrust washers installed turning the M14 threaded rod isn't too difficult even with their coarse threads.

 

Chris, I like the pneumatic/hydraulic compressor.  I have seen companies like Enerpac who sell hollow bore cylinders that would be ideal for an application like this.  Where did yours come from?



#9 Spider

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 06:39 PM

Chris, I like the pneumatic/hydraulic compressor.  I have seen companies like Enerpac who sell hollow bore cylinders that would be ideal for an application like this.  Where did yours come from?

 

Hi Doug, The cylinder (and I think the pump too?) are a Spanish copy (PowerTeam) of the Enerpac Stuff, it is high quality and not cheap but not as expensive as Enerpac (Genuine Enerpac stuff in this country is very very expensive to the point of being a rip off and they won't sell loose spares, you have to take it to them for everything, including say buying a coupling :rolleyes: ), I've had this gear probably 25 years now, I bought it through my late Brother, he was an agent. It's Hydraulic with a Manual Hand Pump, though I also have an Electric Pump, but not really needed for doing Rubber Cones! As it is such high tonnage set up, you don't have any feel so you need to keep an eye on what's going on, otherwise you'd turn the Donuts Inside-out easy! I have 2 lengths of spacers so I can use it straight on the subframe like ^ above or in car.

 

The Ram is just an 'off the shelf' 12 Tonne Hollow Ram, so it can be used for pulling (as in this set up) or pushing. 12 Tonne is over-kill for this application, but it's what I have. I originally bought the Ram for a set of Sheet Metal Punches that I have (up to 150 mm / 6" dia).

 

You'd probably be able to pick up a Ram and Pump 2nd hand these days fairly cheap or get a Chinese knock-off for probably similar money. A 3 to 5 Tonne Ram with a 50 mm / 2" Stroke would be quite adequate.


Edited by Moke Spider, 22 October 2015 - 06:40 PM.


#10 minidaves

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 10:25 PM

Cone compressor needs that thread if u build a subframe out of the car

#11 MontpellierVanMan

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 08:25 AM

Cone compressor needs that thread if u build a subframe out of the car

 

OK, thanks, that explains the extra threaded zone ; I still think the thread is too coarse.

 

 

I don't understand what the problem is, fitting new cones with hilos is easy. Wind them down, slot it in then adjust it back out.
I don't understand why you need to use a spring compressor to with hilos

 

and whose Hi-Lo have so much adjustment that they can be fitted without recourse to a cone-compressor ? There is surely a reason why the originals are pyramidal, and the longer the exposed thread the greater the bending moment imposed on the threaded foot surely ? The ones shown in my pictures are from the Moulton Smootharide kit via - in my case - MiniSport.



#12 GraemeC

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 08:56 AM

Your van may be set on the tall side, but it will be no where near as tall as some rally cars which is what the HiLo was originally designed for, hence the need for the thread length.  Plus as cones degrade and sag, more adjustment will be needed.

 

I would think that most HiLo designs could be fit without a compressor.  Maybe slightly harder with the Smootharide kit as the cone is taller. 






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