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Paint Thats Lasts!


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#1 Mini BUSA

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Posted 17 January 2016 - 09:40 PM

Hi everyone,  I am building a Zcar mini. its in for some strengthening work at the moment, as the back end on theses cars flex's far to much, as I started this build I found more and more small issues, until now, its a full rebuild.

I had it resprayed 5 years ago when I first did it, I did it in a satin black, this has been far to easy to scratch and has not protected the steel as well as I would of liked!

 

My question to you all now is;

 

what is the best paint for strength, one that can take a knock or two.

which gives the best protection again water ingress.  

how much more labour is evolved in spraying a candy or pearl effect paint, is it hard to match up if scratched?

once sprayed is there a clear underseal to protect car underneath, arches, cills ect.

 

Thanks in advance.

 



#2 Mintec1

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Posted 18 January 2016 - 12:14 AM

Ok where to start

First of all the matt black if it was a basecoat of single pac paint it wouldnt be have protection of a top coat or 2k paint

Secondly all good paint work relys on good preparation so the better the prep the better the out come kandys are an expenise paint to buy and labour costly because its a 3 stage same as a pearl but kandys are alot more difficult to paint as its a tinted clear coat every coat changes the depth of the color ie darker with every coat and the car its sprayed continuously form one end to the other
Pearls are 3 stage as well but not as difficult to paint as a kandy so you have your ground coat 2 coats of pearl and then your clear coat

Both kandy and pearls can have matching difficultlys but shouldnt be an issue with a experienced painter that deals with custom painter also kandys are prone to fading so use a good uv clear !

#3 Mini BUSA

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Posted 18 January 2016 - 01:21 AM

ManyThanks



#4 Dusky

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Posted 18 January 2016 - 11:17 AM

Use an elastifier additive in the paint. That ll prevent it from cracking.
Another thing tl concern os the higher millage of the paint with candys and Pearls, those will crack faster than a 1 step system (like direct gloss colors)

#5 Mintec1

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Posted 18 January 2016 - 01:28 PM

No it wont if its done correctly with proper flash offs etc there will be no issues with cracking

#6 And again

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Posted 18 January 2016 - 05:55 PM

Hi
How about body wrap even carbon fibre look,apparently it can be changed quite easily,problem with candy and pearl paint so it's terrible to match,some of the flip paints would be full respray to match,all just my opinion mind you.

#7 bluedragon

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 03:49 AM

In order of durability:

 

1) Polyurethane paint - this is the type of paint used to finish commercial airplanes, trucks, buses, trains, etc. It is the most durable paint commonly available. Once fully cured, it is so hard it's difficult to buff and polish, yet it is very flexible (not brittle at all.) The negatives are that it's a two part paint that uses chemical action to link its molecules to make it hard, and the activator is potentially lethal to breathe (isocyanate - i.e. cyanide based compound.)

 

It is more expensive in terms of paint cost and equipment to spray it safely, and because the paints are usually "high solids type" (more pigment and paint compound vs. carrier thinner, i.e. pretty heavy and thick) it takes some skill to paint successfully. Not for the beginner.

 

Other drawbacks are limited color selections (probably not too many pearls and candies available in polyurethane) though you could choose another type of paint for the base and use durable polyurethane as a clear coat. The polyurethane clear coats I've seen have a bit of a yellowish cast to them though, which might not be desirable for someone very particular about a paint shade.

 

2) Urethane paint - similar to polyurethane, but not quite as durable generally. This type of paint is the most common used by automotive refinishers and body shops. It too is a chemically activated paint, but its activators *can* (but are not necessarily) less lethal than polyurethane, especially if it isn't isocyanate based. Even if not, it is still bad to breathe and requires respirator equipment for protection.

 

It is still a very durable paint, and is available in practically any color. Any OEM color should be available in a urethane. With proper equipment an amateur could make a decent go at it with this type paint.

 

3) Synthetic enamel - an enamel is a paint that dries and cures both through solvent evaporation and chemical linking. (Polyurethanes and urethanes have this characteristic.) Here though, the molecules used in the paint are based on acrylic generally. The most important difference is that for many of these paints, an activator/hardener is optional. This makes them much safer to spray at home.

 

One drawback is that the paint isn't as durable as urethane, though not bad for a car that is reasonably well maintained and protected, and certainly is more prone to cracking. It isn't as flexible. But, remember how I just mentioned how these paints harden through chemical action? Well, if you don't have a oven to bake the enamel, the chemical hardening action literally takes months at room temperature. You have to be real careful not to get any dust on the car after painting for at least 1 day if not longer, and you dare not polish or buff it for at least a couple months (I'd wait at least 6 months.) You can add a chemical activator to speed the hardening process, but the activator puts you back in need of a respirator for protection of your lungs.

 

If a beginner or amateur can protect the car from dust, it's a reasonable product for home use but beware getting a run in the paint. With an activator, you can at least sand down runs or fix painting defects soon after painting. Without activator, you can't do anything about it for months unless you strip and repaint.

 

4) Lacquer, which I think sometimes is termed cellulose - this type paint dries and cures solely by solvent evaporation. It is the easiest paint to spray for a beginner or amateur. But it is also the least durable by far, easily stained by fuel, tar, bird droppings, etc, and is very prone to chipping (not very flexible.) It was a staple of show cars that rarely if ever see the road, and it is easy to sand and polish. But it also illegal in many countries or regions because the volatile thinners used to carry the paint are very polluting. Unless you like touching up your paint all the time, it's not recommended for a regularly driven vehicle.

 

As for candies and pearls - these are among the hardest to spray. First, you have to get the metallic "grain" just right and consistent. If you spray one section one way and other section another way, the difference will be obvious from various angles because the metallic particles will be lying in a different orientation. You will see the the light reflected differently because of the way the metallic particles have settled in the paint (aka "flip-flop".)

 

Then you have to protect the paint with a clear coat. A clear coat is mandatory with a metallic. Finally, if the paint is damaged and needs to be repaired, it take considerable skill to match metallic paints. Often an entire panel has to be repainted to fix a small scratch or chip, if you want it to look perfect, and even if the panel is repainted the painter has to have the skill to match the "flip-flop" of the other panels as well.



#8 MikeRotherham

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 08:35 AM

What sort of paint do they use to spray newly built cars in the factory?



#9 Mini BUSA

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 10:59 PM

In order of durability:

 

1) Polyurethane paint - this is the type of paint used to finish commercial airplanes, trucks, buses, trains, etc. It is the most durable paint commonly available. Once fully cured, it is so hard it's difficult to buff and polish, yet it is very flexible (not brittle at all.) The negatives are that it's a two part paint that uses chemical action to link its molecules to make it hard, and the activator is potentially lethal to breathe (isocyanate - i.e. cyanide based compound.)

 

It is more expensive in terms of paint cost and equipment to spray it safely, and because the paints are usually "high solids type" (more pigment and paint compound vs. carrier thinner, i.e. pretty heavy and thick) it takes some skill to paint successfully. Not for the beginner.

 

Other drawbacks are limited color selections (probably not too many pearls and candies available in polyurethane) though you could choose another type of paint for the base and use durable polyurethane as a clear coat. The polyurethane clear coats I've seen have a bit of a yellowish cast to them though, which might not be desirable for someone very particular about a paint shade.

 

2) Urethane paint - similar to polyurethane, but not quite as durable generally. This type of paint is the most common used by automotive refinishers and body shops. It too is a chemically activated paint, but its activators *can* (but are not necessarily) less lethal than polyurethane, especially if it isn't isocyanate based. Even if not, it is still bad to breathe and requires respirator equipment for protection.

 

It is still a very durable paint, and is available in practically any color. Any OEM color should be available in a urethane. With proper equipment an amateur could make a decent go at it with this type paint.

 

3) Synthetic enamel - an enamel is a paint that dries and cures both through solvent evaporation and chemical linking. (Polyurethanes and urethanes have this characteristic.) Here though, the molecules used in the paint are based on acrylic generally. The most important difference is that for many of these paints, an activator/hardener is optional. This makes them much safer to spray at home.

 

One drawback is that the paint isn't as durable as urethane, though not bad for a car that is reasonably well maintained and protected, and certainly is more prone to cracking. It isn't as flexible. But, remember how I just mentioned how these paints harden through chemical action? Well, if you don't have a oven to bake the enamel, the chemical hardening action literally takes months at room temperature. You have to be real careful not to get any dust on the car after painting for at least 1 day if not longer, and you dare not polish or buff it for at least a couple months (I'd wait at least 6 months.) You can add a chemical activator to speed the hardening process, but the activator puts you back in need of a respirator for protection of your lungs.

 

If a beginner or amateur can protect the car from dust, it's a reasonable product for home use but beware getting a run in the paint. With an activator, you can at least sand down runs or fix painting defects soon after painting. Without activator, you can't do anything about it for months unless you strip and repaint.

 

4) Lacquer, which I think sometimes is termed cellulose - this type paint dries and cures solely by solvent evaporation. It is the easiest paint to spray for a beginner or amateur. But it is also the least durable by far, easily stained by fuel, tar, bird droppings, etc, and is very prone to chipping (not very flexible.) It was a staple of show cars that rarely if ever see the road, and it is easy to sand and polish. But it also illegal in many countries or regions because the volatile thinners used to carry the paint are very polluting. Unless you like touching up your paint all the time, it's not recommended for a regularly driven vehicle.

 

As for candies and pearls - these are among the hardest to spray. First, you have to get the metallic "grain" just right and consistent. If you spray one section one way and other section another way, the difference will be obvious from various angles because the metallic particles will be lying in a different orientation. You will see the the light reflected differently because of the way the metallic particles have settled in the paint (aka "flip-flop".)

 

Then you have to protect the paint with a clear coat. A clear coat is mandatory with a metallic. Finally, if the paint is damaged and needs to be repaired, it take considerable skill to match metallic paints. Often an entire panel has to be repainted to fix a small scratch or chip, if you want it to look perfect, and even if the panel is repainted the painter has to have the skill to match the "flip-flop" of the other panels as well.

Very well put, I was asking because I will have to respray my car again. but I will not be doing it, It will be a professional. I like the pearls, and my roll cage is a Zcar candy blue but I had put masking tape over it to protect it from scratches, but its now stuck fast for years.



#10 bluedragon

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 05:50 AM

What sort of paint do they use to spray newly built cars in the factory?

 

There are a lot of different factory technologies especially in the past 10 years. It's safe to say they are all based on chemical cross-linking, but can vary from acrylic to urethane. Polyurethane is rare because to get a beautiful finish (perfectly smooth) takes more labor, and the paint is more expensive. Commercial applications aren't quite as picky about perfectly smooth paint as automotive buyers, they just need it to stay shiny and not chip, crack, or fade.

 

A good quality urethane paint will be equal to the vast majority of OEM's in terms of durability if prepared and applied properly.

 

The big difference in factory OEM paint is that they can bake the paint at high temperatures, which kind of levels the field for many of the different paint chemistries. This is different than your typical autobody shop "oven" (which usually is actually a booth with heat lamps.) Why? Because the factory can bake the paint before the body has anything installed on it. Baking a typical refinish job at 200°C in the body shop for 30 minutes would do bad things to your wires, hoses, vinyl, leather, rubber, etc. :(

 

But modern paint can range from water-borne paints to electrically deposited coatings (similar to powerdercoating) and more. I remember Nissan once boasting of their "self-healing" nanocoat clear coat that was supposed to be able to reflow when exposed to bright sunlight and heat and "heal" fine scratches, but haven't heard of it since (5 years ago?)

 

Still, some brands do have cheaper, lower quality paints than others. The last Rover Minis had wonderfully applied paint jobs, but the quality of the paint materials was far from impressive IMHO (probably due more the primers used than the color coat though.) I had heard these paint jobs were actually hand-flatted and polished, but seems crazy to pay for all that labor and use a cheap primer if that was true.



#11 MikeRotherham

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 03:35 PM

Thanks for that info!






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