12 replies to this topic

[miniBrain]

Hi,

 

When I rebuilt my Mini about four years ago, I changed the wheel bearings as a matter of course. I ordered them as part of a larger order from Minisport and I never paid much attention to the price or spec - just took what they gave me.

 

Anyhow, about 7,000 miles later I heard a grumbling from the front and traced it to the passenger side wheel. After taking the hub apart....

 

 

The bearing cage had disintegrated and the rollers were badly scored and worn.

 

The bearing is marked FHRC KOR which turns out to be very cheap and very nasty and is discussed in this thread.

 

 

I wanted something cheaper than OEM bearings at £50 per side and I came across bearings from Continental Direct at £28 each. This is a subsidiary of Germany's Continental tyres, so bound to be good quality, eh? 

 

 

Well, maybe they'll be good or maybe they'll sh1te like the £11 ones. I'll report back in a couple of years 

Edited by miniBrain, 03 February 2016 - 06:06 PM.

[MIGLIACARS]

let me know how these go together.

 

i agree the cheap ones are terrible.   timkins all they way for me

[robminibcy]

with all cars although minis especially if you buy cheap you buy twice (or multiple times!) £50 is not really that much for timken bearings when you compare them to modern car prices or to having to do the same job several times

[miniBrain]

let me know how these go together.

 

i agree the cheap ones are terrible.   timkins all they way for me

 

You can get bearings from Moog, FAG, SKF & SNR all around £45-£55. I was going to get SNR's when I came across these Continental types. Folk are fitting them to Fords, Beemers, Alfas, VW's and even Lotus Elise / VX220. So I thought I'd give them a punt.

[AlexMozza]

Use Timkin ones, they work, always have done, always will. 

[Cooperman]

I always use Timken and, so far, have had no problems.

Buy cheap, buy twice!

[FlyingScot]

Used both Timkens and the minispares ones, never had a problem with either. Plenty of quality grease (not the guff in the wee satchets) and torqued up correctly (pre torqued with the washer in the case of the last few with disk brakes).

FS

[jaydee]

When you fit them, theres two ways to check if those will bind and fail

One is a dry fitting and check for a 3 thou play.

One is fitting, torqueing with a flat whasher, as you get close to the torque setting -say from 100NM- before increasing torque spin the hub to check if it gets tight, if it gets tight the spacer is too thin and needs replacement with a thicker one. Otherwise you will crush the cages hence the premature fail of the bearings.

[miniBrain]

Fitted the new bearing using the procedure outlined above - flat washer torqued up to 150 lb-ft with no discernible increase in friction. Re-fitted the taper washer and torqued up the nut. Ended up at 172 lb-ft to align the split pin hole and still no binding:

 

 

Took the car to the nearest hill and coasted down listening for any strange noises - sounded fine. Did about a mile then checked for any sign of overheating - all clear. Happy days 

 

Had a closer look at the remnants of the failed bearing. Never seen anything like this before:

 

 

 

What could have caused this? The bearing track was perfectly smooth with no scoring to match the scoring on the rollers above. Grit / dirt let in during assembly? I might not be the most fastidious in the world but I think you'd need a deliberate act to get sufficient debris in to cause this amount of damage. I'm pretty sure the hub was spotless when I assembled this first time.

 

The fact that there isn't corresponding damage to the bearing track and bearing carrier suggests that the rollers are made with poorer quality materials and/or poorly treated. 

 

Oh well. I'll report back on this thread if there's any probs with these new [cheapish] bearings.

[Spider]

Going back to the bearings in the opening post, they appear to me they may have had too much pre-load, ie, the spacer was too thin or the outer cups weren't seated, though, if the latter, they will usually seat themselves, unless there's damage to the hub or something between the cup and the register in the hub.

 

With those in the post above, it looks a bit like there's an electric current going through the bearing (highly unlikely) or there's water in the grease or the seals aren't sealing and after a run condensate is forming inside the hub.

[jaydee]

The problem with the cheap blue box bearings shown above is the incorrect spacer which lead to overtorqueing, and the wrong material used for the cage

I doubt they will last even if you fit them correctly

I think the letter picture is showing sings of overheating and water contamination, probably overtorqued bearing lubed with a cheap grease, i'd be curious to see what it looks like after a good wash with diesel fuel

[miniBrain]

The problem with the cheap blue box bearings shown above is the incorrect spacer which lead to overtorqueing, and the wrong material used for the cage

I doubt they will last even if you fit them correctly

I think the letter picture is showing sings of overheating and water contamination, probably overtorqued bearing lubed with a cheap grease, i'd be curious to see what it looks like after a good wash with diesel fuel

 

The cause of failure could be any of what you suggest - but in my case I don't think its overtorquing.

 

The spacer width of the failed bearing matches the new bearing to less than a thou. In the old and new bearings I never noticed any binding. I've just been out for a high speed (well, 60mph) run on a winding country road. At the end of the run I checked the temp of the LH and RH hubs and both were cool to the touch.

 

Maybe the grease I used weren't good enough (can't remember what I used) or maybe there was some contamination. Bottom line though, is cheap bearings are made with cheap materials and cheaply treated and are bound to be less tolerant.

[jaydee]

My first geass is that they're not even treated..

Mind you when you overtorque a timken it still wont fail after doing 60 mph then windy roads

i've been replacing a timken once, i found it was running with literally no grease, that bearing was slightly noisey and wearing out the hardening, i can imagine it should have still lasted a lot miles before failing.

I've also seen 20-30 years old RHP bearings, and refitted them just straight after cleaning and repack with grease.

So yes, the materials used in the cheapies is really out of spec