19 replies to this topic

[wibs1007]

hi guys im about to respray my 1981 mini shell havent posted many questions on this because most of the answers are already on the forum and while im here i would like to say thanks because used it many times.My question is ive bare metaled  my shell all except the new panels which are complete front end and rear side panel which are heritage.I am spraying with celulose 1.its more forgiving and 2 for my health but that is another argument.Ive spoke to the guys at Heritage and they advice me to etch primer their panels as well as the bare ones but ive spoken to UPOL of which im using thier high build primer and they say not to bother with Etch primer at all just put a couple of dust coats on first and then go for it.If you do say use Etch which one would you use baring in mind im using celly 

cheers steve

[absx2]

An etch primer on any bare metal is the way to go to be honest but hundreds have not bothered

The upol claims to be good for bare metal so go for it as i don`t think you can get a true 1k etch primer other than rattle cans ( bad) 

If you are not using a spray booth and I guess your not as your using celly. Make sure its a perfect sunny day with low humidity. Have a 7m long airline with a water trap on the end then another air line to your gun. This gives the warm compressed air a chance to cool before it hits the water trap that will help to avoid micro-blisters which are a bigger problem with celly. Leave the car overnight after wet flatting to make sure its 100% dry.

After priming leave the car as long as you can ( weeks even ) as the longer you leave it the more the paint will shrink back. this will give a great finish without shrinkage lines around body filler etc ( mapping ) spoiling the job a few weeks later.

The most important thing after PPE is preparation followed by more preparation. If done right celly gives an excellent finish, just make sure you put plenty on there :)

Stay away from aerosol cans as you would be asking for micro blisters

 

 Edit.  I found this 231267986481 on ebay so I guess you can get 1K etch primer but you would need a data sheet to check its compatible so use caution.

Edited by absx2, 28 May 2016 - 08:06 PM.

[Daz1968]

As a first coat you can use epoxy its very good and doesn't absorb moisture, it also flats very easily and can be over coated fine with cellulose or 2k top coats.

[Stu.]

I wouldn't bother with etch primers. Just use a good epoxy primer like HB Body 989. This has the benefit over other primers of being waterproof, cured and set after 24 hours with no shrink back, and it bonds well to properly prepared surfaces. It also works well as a bar coat whch prevents reaction worries.

[Daz1968]

That's the same epoxy I have used and it was very good on build as well so just a couple of coats flatted then straight on with top coat

[wibs1007]

If I'm to use the epoxy primer am i still using the Upol after yes? And thanks absx2
That's how my compressor and spray gun was sold to me now I know why.would you use the epoxy?

[wibs1007]

Sorry to go on but this epoxy is a 2k spray I understand that celly won't be happy on top of this and thoughts?

[Dusky]

I always etch first, then spray 2K high build as quick as possible ( wait time comes with the instructions) over it. 

Thats how I've seen my grandfather do it for 30+ years and he never had rust problems.

[absx2]

Epoxy is the way to go in an ideal world as it has anti corrosives and is impervious to moisture and hardly shrinks. I use it all the time because and only because we have a spraybake oven at work. 2K is nasty stuff that can kill you and your neighbours if exposed to it in the sufficient quantity`s.

As for celly not going over epoxy that`s not correct as after 20 years its not fallen off yet and I know of a lot of classic restorers that use celly as a top coat over 2K for the period look.  

Edited by absx2, 29 May 2016 - 09:43 AM.

[wibs1007]

As you just said asbx2 2k can kill so I would prefer not to use it I have no air fed mask and I'm using a large garage with no fans just doors either end so should get resonable air flow shall I stick to what Upol say or is there any other alternatives cheers

[absx2]

In that case stick with what you have. There will be others that claim 2K is fine without the correct PPE etc but it can take years before the damage to your health can arise.

Google HSE reports, A lad died of vapor inhalation whilst fitting a clutch in another part of a garage after the car had been sprayed so the paint was gassing off! 

A really good finish can be achieved with cellulose paint, just take your time with preparation and remember the finish you start with is the finish you end with so any imperfections in your prep are there forever as the paint will not hide it. I took seven days to prep my mk2 a few years back and the guys at work took the mickey.

The top coats were done in the spraybake oven in cellulose at 20 degrees c. I walked around the car applying coat on coat until I was happy with the final coat being more thinners than paint 70/30. This gave a super flat finish that did not require mopping and looks excellent to this day. Use high quality anti bloom thinners.

Cellulose is all we had back in the day, its requires a LOT more prep and should be allowed to shrink back for best results before top coating.

Yes its not as durable as 2K but its a dam site easier to spot repair, soft mask and blow in. 

[wibs1007]

Cheers absx2 I'm in no hurry been resoring it for the last 2 years hope to finish this summer been prepping body for weeks now hopefully get a few coats of high build on flatten then start top coating august time

[Stu.]

Epoxy HB Body 989 can be used with a good quality filter mask. Download and read the Safety Data Sheet.

 

If you don't want to use it then stick to celly hi build and put up with the shrinkage and reaction issues that come with it.

[wibs1007]

Hi stu just been on hb body site and looked at data sheet to me it looks like a picture of a face in an air fed mask. Now maybe I am being a bit of a girls blouse here but if someone tells me to stick my head in the oven I wont if someone tells 2k can kill even doing one respray I won't use it.surely they were putting celly on for years with no problems of adhering without using a 2k product so are the 1k etch or epoxy primers any good

[wibs1007]

Hi stu just been on hb body site and looked at data sheet to me it looks like a picture of a face in an air fed mask. Now maybe I am being a bit of a girls blouse here but if someone tells me to stick my head in the oven I wont if someone tells 2k can kill even doing one respray I won't use it.surely they were putting celly on for years with no problems of adhering without using a 2k product so are the 1k etch or epoxy primers any good