13 replies to this topic

[MIGLIACARS]

Does any one have a oil temp gauge in there full race track car, if so what kinda temps do we expect to see on a healthy 1275cc engine <mini> on say a 15 min race!!!!

[nicklouse]

I would be wanting to see a temp of about 90 degrees.

[MIGLIACARS]

ummm   kinda glad you have commented on this nick.

 

I thought a bit more to be honest, but really i dont no.

 

The reason im asking is after speaking to a well renowned race car builder at the weekend he said he would not hesitate to recommend a 10/60 in a race A series  that is a fully synthetic castrol race oil,

 ill add the link...

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...QcAAOSw2XFUeA3o

 

 

This guy runs lots of very quick cars new and old and swears that on an A series it would be superb in race trim,

Edited by MIGLIACARS, 01 September 2016 - 06:23 AM.

[nicklouse]

I think you have a typo in your post above as it does not read right.


Not an oil I have considered.

But a cooler temp for racing is not bad but it might not get rid of moisture and other crud in it through evaporation.

Newer oils can give the same protection at lower pressures as old oils did at higher pressures. Race engines tend to have higher tolerances (better) so can give good pressure with "thinner" oils.

Don't forget the box. What does it need?

How often are your stripping it down for rebuilds?


Final thought water temps. Why not spit it into two systems. Head and block. Run electric pumps and two different temps.

My only issue with oil temp is getting heat in to it I might have to fit a heater as they don't like you running your engine out here.

[MIGLIACARS]

Don't forget the box. What does it need?

 

well at present I run the Valvoline vr1 20/50. but that castrol 10/60 is thicker when hot so I thought it would help the gearbox to.

Im also under the impression that a semi synthetic is newer technology than the old mineral oils!!!

 

 

How often are your stripping it down for rebuilds?

 

I change the oil and filter after every event which is quail race 1 then race 2.

ill get a full season out of an engine nowadays which is say 7 events

[Spider]

Don't forget the box. What does it need?

 

 

A lighter Oil will allow for faster shifts between gears and also less drag in the gearbox, but will come at the expense of gearbox life.

 

I will say it's been many years since I was in the hurly burly of competition, but when I was we were using a 20W50 Mineral Oil but found going to a 10W30 we got best lap times and shifting was considerably faster. We got a season from that power unit no issues with room to spare. It also got up to temp quicker.

 

I think these days, I'd possibly steer towards a semi-synthetic.

[Orange-Phantom]

I'd be running one of these,

 

Millers CTV.  Semi Synthetic, designed for combined engine and gearbox i.e the Mini.

 

http://www.millersoi...ctor=Motorsport

 

Or Swiftune Race oil, Semi Synthetic formulated for Classic Minis.

 

http://www.swiftune....0-race-oil.aspx

[Gr4h4m]

When I emailed millers a couple of years ago to ask about oil temps when using their CTV product I was told if you hit 110 you should change it. I wasn't racing but I found long motorway journeys in the heat the oil temp did rise to 110 if I keept the speed up. This was on a 3.65 diff

[Earwax]

the oil temp on most race cars( historic minis) i know isn't a problem ( as nick says near the ninety) but more of a problem keeping heat up in some climates/conditions ( tape part of the oil cooler).  The 20/50 or 10/60 (all mineral based but supposedly good base stock) i have seen run can be sluggish to turn over when outside is -6Celsius.,,,,, but i have yet to give up my electric blanket to surrender to the sump..... the oil pressure under continuous load is the  key factor for me in sticking with an oil.  aiming for 90-100 psi on full tilt at the end of the race ( lately i don't get that far into the race... but i will continue to persist).  My theory ( okay zany idea) is that  - often in those last few laps ( and generally our races are only 12 minutes long) -our cars reach near a full state of heat soak  ( the tipping point above which additional heat ( and or reduced efficiency at shedding heat) occurs .... and  that that is when the breathers, windage tray, aux radiator, dry decking(for some) thermo wraps,,  etc all play their part in keeping things stable.

 

Totally tangential , but  related to shedding heat.... is the story of mokes overheating if travelling into a particular direction cross breeze, a myth or truth....... the wind playing havoc with the low pressure under the wing and therefore the radiator and fan not being able to shed heat?  makes sense to me, but i have seen some A series engines with good/close shrouding around fan/radiator and others with no shrouding and haven't been able to isolate any correlation with high pressure/low pressure and a link to overheating  off track but interesting to me at least

[Orange-Phantom]

the oil temp on most race cars( historic minis) i know isn't a problem ( as nick says near the ninety) but more of a problem keeping heat up in some climates/conditions ( tape part of the oil cooler).  The 20/50 or 10/60 (all mineral based but supposedly good base stock) i have seen run can be sluggish to turn over when outside is -6Celsius.,,,,, but i have yet to give up my electric blanket to surrender to the sump..... the oil pressure under continuous load is the  key factor for me in sticking with an oil.  aiming for 90-100 psi on full tilt at the end of the race ( lately i don't get that far into the race... but i will continue to persist).  My theory ( okay zany idea) is that  - often in those last few laps ( and generally our races are only 12 minutes long) -our cars reach near a full state of heat soak  ( the tipping point above which additional heat ( and or reduced efficiency at shedding heat) occurs .... and  that that is when the breathers, windage tray, aux radiator, dry decking(for some) thermo wraps,,  etc all play their part in keeping things stable.

 

Totally tangential , but  related to shedding heat.... is the story of mokes overheating if travelling into a particular direction cross breeze, a myth or truth....... the wind playing havoc with the low pressure under the wing and therefore the radiator and fan not being able to shed heat?  makes sense to me, but i have seen some A series engines with good/close shrouding around fan/radiator and others with no shrouding and haven't been able to isolate any correlation with high pressure/low pressure and a link to overheating  off track but interesting to me at least

I'd say your aim of 90-100 psi on full tilt when the engine is hot is nearly double what it should be, which is around 50-60 psi.  Anything over is just wasting power and increasing the oil temps further.

[Spider]

I very much agree with Orange Phantom here. Higher Oil Pressures only serve to heat the Oil.

 

In the Comp Cars I've been involved with, we only ever ran 60 PSI max, though I'd even be happy with 45.

[MIGLIACARS]

 

Don't forget the box. What does it need?

 

 

A lighter Oil will allow for faster shifts between gears and also less drag in the gearbox, but will come at the expense of gearbox life.

 

I will say it's been many years since I was in the hurly burly of competition, but when I was we were using a 20W50 Mineral Oil but found going to a 10W30 we got best lap times and shifting was considerably faster. We got a season from that power unit no issues with room to spare. It also got up to temp quicker.

 

I think these days, I'd possibly steer towards a semi-synthetic.

 

why semi and not a full synthetic

 

what are your thoughts on this

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...QcAAOSw2XFUeA3o

 

as apposed to this

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...ywAAOSwj2dXjfxG

[Spider]

 

 

Don't forget the box. What does it need?

 

 

A lighter Oil will allow for faster shifts between gears and also less drag in the gearbox, but will come at the expense of gearbox life.

 

I will say it's been many years since I was in the hurly burly of competition, but when I was we were using a 20W50 Mineral Oil but found going to a 10W30 we got best lap times and shifting was considerably faster. We got a season from that power unit no issues with room to spare. It also got up to temp quicker.

 

I think these days, I'd possibly steer towards a semi-synthetic.

 

why semi and not a full synthetic

 

what are your thoughts on this

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...QcAAOSw2XFUeA3o

 

as apposed to this

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...ywAAOSwj2dXjfxG

 

 

I feel I'm too far out of the loop these days in regards to Synthetics and Semi-synthetics to offer a proper answer. I mentioned Semi and when I last looked in to it, I felt Full Synthetics weren't suitable for our gearboxes, but I have to say, I'm no doubt out of touch with what's currently available. As a passing comment, I don't hold Castrol Products highly. They are big on marketing hype and in more recent years, since being taken over by BP, I feel their products aren't as good. A former employer did work many years ago for Castrol when they were marketing GT-X with Liquid Tungsten. He asked about the Liquid Tungsten and what it was and their Scientist at the time said "Well in very basic terms, it's Liquid BS". I also put Valvoline in the same class.

 

There's a forum for Oil, "Bob's the Oil Guy" and while it is a forum (and all the baggage that comes with it), there are (or at least were) some people from reputable sources who sat on the forum, who are worth listening to. I will steer you on to that forum;-

 

Forum:-   http://www.bobistheo.../ubbthreads.php

 

Website:-   http://bobistheoilguy.com/

 

<EDIT: It's a long time since I last looked at that forum and there's now  HUGE range on categories >

 

<2nd EDIT: Can I suggest start reading here. I'm sure you'll find it VERY enlightening and it may dispel many long held 'myths'

 

http://bobistheoilguy.com/putting-the-simple-back-into-viscosity/   >

Edited by Moke Spider, 01 September 2016 - 09:10 PM.

[Earwax]

thanks orange phantom... i'll have to go back and look when the car is a runner again.. you make a good point.