24 replies to this topic

[Darwinism]

Hi,

I'm struggling to remove  a seized bolt on the ball joint end of the tie bar, the nut end snapped off, after trying with it in place I also ended up cutting the bolt head off to try and relieve tension.

 

I've tried all I can with the access I have so my last option is to drill it out. I've never drilled into stainless steel before and quickly found out my HSS bits weren't going to cut it so I bought some cobalt bits and some cutting fluid, I was suprised it barely made a scratch but figured the issue must be my drill, it's a cheapy, a 12V cordless Black n Decker costing £40 about 3 years ago, I tried various speeds, taking my time, I used a centre punch also.

Is it my crappy drill? If so can someone advise me on a adequate replacement please, I'm a total newb and the options are baffling me, I don't have a lot to spend as I've got new tools coming out my rear, the mrs will kill me soon. I was looking at these two:

http://www.screwfix....-2-li-plus-1...
http://www.screwfix....3rfw-18v-3-0...

Thanks for any help.

 

[nicklouse]

? just hit it.

[blacktulip]

Heat and hammer

[Fast Ivan]

if its stainless and the cobalt wont go near it then you've probably hardened it by using to high a drill speed

[Darwinism]

Blunt force was my first action, too much I think, the ends are slightly pancaked. Heat was my second attempt, a propane blowtorch.

 

I imagine it's hardened beyond words! So what the heck can I do?

 

Oh, it's not the seized bolt I was drilling, it was a new M8 bolt in a vice, to practice first, as I have to use a right angle extension, not that it works without it either, I centre punched it but the was all.

Edited by Darwinism, 29 September 2016 - 02:25 PM.

[greenwheels]

These can be a right b****r - Heat and hammer as blacktulip says - I'd take the assembly off the car - heat gently from the outside (you're trying to expand the outside not the bolt) - use something slightly smaller in diameter to drift it out.

Remeber this is not just any old bolt, replace it with the correct specified one from your favourite parts supplier.

[Fast Ivan]

grind away the hardened area with a dremel or similar

use a sharp drill bit and use the correct speed, what size hole are you drilling?

use a constant and firm feed with plenty of coolant

do not hesitate or back off the feed unless you're pulling away completely

[Darwinism]

These can be a right b****r - Heat and hammer as blacktulip says - I'd take the assembly off the car - heat gently from the outside (you're trying to expand the outside not the bolt) - use something slightly smaller in diameter to drift it out.

Remeber this is not just any old bolt, replace it with the correct specified one from your favourite parts supplier.

Is it even stainless steel then?

This one - http://www.minispare...|Back to search

grind away the hardened area with a dremel or similar

use a sharp drill bit and use the correct speed, what size hole are you drilling?

use a constant and firm feed with plenty of coolant

do not hesitate or back off the feed unless you're pulling away completely

On the practice bolt I was trying to drill 2mm, brand new cobalt drill bit and cutting fluid. I've just started to get the feeling that the tie bar bolt isn't actually stainless steel.

So I'm still not sure if my weak drill is the issue?

[greenwheels]

 

These can be a right b****r - Heat and hammer as blacktulip says - I'd take the assembly off the car - heat gently from the outside (you're trying to expand the outside not the bolt) - use something slightly smaller in diameter to drift it out.

Remember this is not just any old bolt, replace it with the correct specified one from your favourite parts supplier.

Is it even stainless steel then?

This one - http://www.minispare...|Back to search

So I'm still not sure if my weak drill is the issue?

 

That's it - not sure what material it is but it is a special length

The trouble with drilling is that you can easily be a bit off centre or at an angle which can ruin the arm!!

If you cannot drive it out you could take it (the arm and tie bar assembly) around to your local garage and ask them to push it out with a hydraulic press.

[Darwinism]

 

 

These can be a right b****r - Heat and hammer as blacktulip says - I'd take the assembly off the car - heat gently from the outside (you're trying to expand the outside not the bolt) - use something slightly smaller in diameter to drift it out.

Remember this is not just any old bolt, replace it with the correct specified one from your favourite parts supplier.

Is it even stainless steel then?

This one - http://www.minispare...|Back to search

So I'm still not sure if my weak drill is the issue?

 

That's it - not sure what material it is but it is a special length

The trouble with drilling is that you can easily be a bit off centre or at an angle which can ruin the arm!!

If you cannot drive it out you could take it (the arm and tie bar assembly) around to your local garage and ask them to push it out with a hydraulic press.

 

Yup it's a worry but the alternative is really what I've been trying to avoid, would that not mean removing the hub and driveshaft nut? Then I'd need new seals and ball joint, I don't even own a torque wrench capable of tightening that back up.

[GraemeC]

No need to touch the hub nut.

Split bottom ball joint, remove 'wriggly' pin at inner end of bottom arm and remove nut from other end of tie bar.  The bottom arm and tie bar will then come out together, held together by your bolt.

 

To be honest - if you remove the tie bar nut from the other end you may be able to push the hub back far enough to release the tiebar from the front of the subframe.  This will allow you to wiggle the tie bar around the bolt in question and may free it up a bit.

 

If it is the standard bolt, it will not be stainless.  In fact stainless should not be used in that location as it is too brittle. 

[tiger99]

Beat me to it! I was just reading down and about to make a comment about how stainless would be unsafe there. It must not be used in any structural position in the car. Surely the bolt must be grade 8.8 or 10.9, which do drill reasonably well? 12.9 would be too brittle.

 

I think it is just a case of drilling a small pilot hole first, say 3 or 4mm, using a good quality, properly sharpened drill bit. One of those yellow TiN coated ones should do nicely. That is Titanium Nitride, not Tin. Many people get confused about that, usually because of badly produced catalogues. The latest Screwfix one is even worse, it talks about titanium plated in some cases. Well, titanium metal is quite unsuitable as the surface of a cutting tool, but the nitride is another matter altogether.

 

A small hole will be easier to drill and will help the final full-size drill to cut more effectively.

 

I would advise doing it off car, as already advised. If possible, hold the arm in a nice bench vice, or even better, a machine vice on the table of a pillar drill.

[Darwinism]

No need to touch the hub nut.

Split bottom ball joint, remove 'wriggly' pin at inner end of bottom arm and remove nut from other end of tie bar.  The bottom arm and tie bar will then come out together, held together by your bolt.

 

To be honest - if you remove the tie bar nut from the other end you may be able to push the hub back far enough to release the tiebar from the front of the subframe.  This will allow you to wiggle the tie bar around the bolt in question and may free it up a bit.

 

If it is the standard bolt, it will not be stainless.  In fact stainless should not be used in that location as it is too brittle

Beat me to it! I was just reading down and about to make a comment about how stainless would be unsafe there. It must not be used in any structural position in the car. Surely the bolt must be grade 8.8 or 10.9, which do drill reasonably well? 12.9 would be too brittle.

 

I think it is just a case of drilling a small pilot hole first, say 3 or 4mm, using a good quality, properly sharpened drill bit. One of those yellow TiN coated ones should do nicely. That is Titanium Nitride, not Tin. Many people get confused about that, usually because of badly produced catalogues. The latest Screwfix one is even worse, it talks about titanium plated in some cases. Well, titanium metal is quite unsuitable as the surface of a cutting tool, but the nitride is another matter altogether.

 

A small hole will be easier to drill and will help the final full-size drill to cut more effectively.

 

I would advise doing it off car, as already advised. If possible, hold the arm in a nice bench vice, or even better, a machine vice on the table of a pillar drill.

Thanks very much, both great help. They were originally too tight also but after 3 days of penetrating fluid it came off with ease just now, so the assembly came out, popped in a vice, heated with my new propane torch :) whacked and oh joy of joys the little pillock came out, I was so happy, I feel euphoric!!! I think I'm going to frame it. Now I'm just waiting on the new tie rod kit to arrive, thanks very much greenwheels I would have used a standard bolt if you hadn't told me otherwise.

[tiger99]

Well done! Making progress and gaining experience are always good. Everyone likes winning a battle, and with old cars there are plenty of those...

[Spider]

What's a Stainless Bolt doing in there in the first place?