31 replies to this topic

[Paulb53]

Yeah I swapped the starter from another mini today (last thing I did) no difference.
I also disconnected the alternator, no change.

Any other suggestions?

[nicklouse]

Fly wheel and starter compatible?

If yes.

Voltage of battery?

[Paulb53]

I'd say flywheel and starter are compatible as it engages / cranked over fine until I came to it to other day. Just picked up another power cable and Earth to try.

[Paulb53]

I'd say flywheel and starter are compatible as it engages / cranked over fine until I came to it to other day. Just picked up another power cable and Earth to try.

[tiger99]

Check the battery terminals, and if they are of the pot type replace them with the split clamp type. The pot type often spread and cause a relatively high resistance, causing severe voltage drop when attempting to start. Happens on many cars of that age, not just Minis.

[neal]

Did you say that you have changed the positive battery cable from the battery to the engine bay?

I had to change one of these a few years ago due to similar symptoms.

 

See this topic: Positive Battery Cable Connected, No Power!

 

 

ANOTHER IDEA/THEORY FOR YOU TO THINK ABOUT

 

(If you HAVEN'T changed this one then it COULD be possible that yours is on it's way out, a continuity test is no good to check this, a resistance check may help but not always.

 

 

A new cable will have the correct amount of copper strands at a certain diameter for a given length, the cable will be able to carry a safe amount of current (current carrying capacity)

 

An old deteriorating cable will not be able to carry the current required and will carry less current with subsequent consecutive cranking of the engine, thus the engine slows down on cranking.

 

(As a result the cable will heat up more and more,  the voltage in the engine bay will drop more and more and the cable will carry less current to the engine bay, effectively the battery positive cable will become a huge heating element and the engine bay/ignition switch and circuits will have next to nothing and suffer as a consequence)

Edited by neal, 23 October 2016 - 10:35 PM.

[Paulb53]

Hi, thanks for all the suggestions.

Yes bought a new + cable and battery and new terminals, planted it in front of the car and earthed onto various areas (head stud, bulk head and starter body) flew over and the car started, shut the car down and tried again, cranked slower and then slowed and stopped, back to clicking!
Will get some pics up tonight as not going to have much time over the next couple of weeks.

Thanks

[nicklouse]

ok back to basics.

 

engine from where? (history)

 

what flywheel?

 

what starter?

 

pictures.

 

check new battery voltage.

 

did you charge it first?

[ryomini]

When you say the battery is NEW, do you mean it was 100 percent new, new electrolyte and fully charged, ie  a voltage of something like 13.25 or so

I have used OLD charged batteries for testing work, only to fiind that they discharge very quickly and that also depending on ambient temperatures - very hot and very cold make things even worse

 

As another poster suggested, physically inspect fuses if they are the glass type, everyone has found one that 'works', gives a continuity reading but in fact one tip of the wire in the fuse is just 'resting' on the connector and when there is vibration it creates a short (but from your efforts sounds like the problem is elsewhere)

 

Is something discharging the battery, worth checking it between other checks to see that it is always holding full voltage

[Magneto]

I think you have a bad starter, it's dragging and getting hot. I'd recommend you stop throwing parts at it and find out what's really wrong.

[neal]

I think you have a bad starter, it's dragging and getting hot. I'd recommend you stop throwing parts at it and find out what's really wrong.

I think that you could be right, take your old one apart and check the carbon brushes, if these are badly worn there will not be enough spring tension behind the brushes to press onto the commutator, giving a poor connection. Also check the condition of the commutator, sometimes these wear badly or most commonly the copper commutator will tarnish and again not allowing a good connection.

 

Check that there is no play in the bronze bushes at each end of the casing that hold the armature assembly to spin concentrically within the motor frame, if wear is excessive wear is present this will reduce it's operation.

 

Also have a good look inside and check the field coil for visual signs of burning, if you can smell something burnt then check again.

 

Finally if you can get the solenoid to open up check the contacts for pitting which will give a poor connection and solenoid field windings for signs of overheating and smell for signs of burning. 

 

I don't know if you have ever had an electric drill or a hoover when the brushes are worn out but the power delivery of the appliance goes down, which also could be similar to your starter motor symptoms.

 

If you don't feel confident with taking it apart and you can't find someone to help you check this, then borrow a starter motor this is known to work before buying.

[KernowCooper]

Whats the battery voltage when cranking, sounds to me like a bad connection somewhere?

[neal]

Just had another thought, disconnect the battery cables in the boot, then disconnect the main battery feed and the ignition key crank feed wire to your starter motor solenoid. Then disconnect all earth wires from your chassis to the engine, by doing this your starter motor and engine will be isolated from all feeds.

 

Then use a good known battery and place at the front of your car and use good thick positive cable from the battery straight to the large starter motor solenoid terminal, bolt the earth cable from the negative terminal of your battery to the clutch housing close to the starter motor.

 

Then you will need to take a smaller fused wire from your positive terminal of your battery with a Toggle switch and connect this to your starter motor solenoid crank feed terminal.

 

In essence, you are taking away all circuits from the equation and providing a source of power directly to the starter motor which will identify a starter motor fault or an engine/gearbox problem. Don't worry the engine won't start as there is no power to the ignition as all other circuits are isolated but should crank the engine over.

 

If it cranks over time and time again with no problem then it's not the starter motor and engine, but elsewhere as mentioned by all from the back of the car up to the starter solenoid.

Edited by neal, 24 October 2016 - 08:42 PM.

[SteveDW]

Check your bores aren't full of fuel, I had a stuck needle valve and high capacity fuel pump and it filled the engine with fuel and it wouldn't turn over because it was trying to compress liquid fuel. Was nice and clean afterwards though.

[neal]

Another thought........ (After reading SteveDW post)

 

Have you by accident or could the distributor have moved and over-advanced the ignition timing???