25 replies to this topic

[tiger99]

Not relevant to the thrust bearing concentricity then. But necessary when needed for its intended function.

[neal]

Never looked at a Verto setup till this job. Now the "fingers" that get pressed on what is acceptable wear?
This is the item in question.


Like I say I know diddly about them.

Do you know how many miles this clutch has covered?

[nicklouse]

No idea at all all I know is the guy who put the engine together is a numpty and had the car before the current owner who has had it for 6 years on a limited mileage.

[neal]

No idea at all all I know is the guy who put the engine together is a numpty and had the car before the current owner who has had it for 6 years on a limited mileage.

I'm not going to disagree with that comment after looking at the photos, If he had anything to do with the Titanic it wouldn't have let any water in and sunk that's for sure, Hahahaha

[nicklouse]

There is another pressure plate that can with the car with very good fingers but he had kept it in a plastic container half full of water.!

[neal]

There is another pressure plate that can with the car with very good fingers but he had kept it in a plastic container half full of water.!

This guy clearly doesn't know what he's doing, I feel pity for him, but in the same token he should have opened a workshop manual and/or signed up to TMF and started asking questions, I can't fault him for trying that's for sure.

 

How did you manage to get involved with this??????

[Pigeonto]

Dusky, on 25 Oct 2016 - 05:02 AM, said:Dusky, on 25 Oct 2016 - 05:02 AM, said:

Nope.
In fact there is a Spring in the slave cylinder that slightly pushes the arm at all Times.

Except on mine !

I made up the items needed to prevent the constant contact, comprising of an adjustable stop and return spring.

The thrust race without this runs at engine speed but has no oil nor filter, just a blob of grease for 50,000 miles or however long a clutch lasts !!!

Edited by Pigeonto, 26 October 2016 - 05:27 AM.

[nicklouse]

 

There is another pressure plate that can with the car with very good fingers but he had kept it in a plastic container half full of water.!

This guy clearly doesn't know what he's doing, I feel pity for him, but in the same token he should have opened a workshop manual and/or signed up to TMF and started asking questions, I can't fault him for trying that's for sure.

 

How did you manage to get involved with this??????

 

to guy who put it together has the manual (not in the UK) and is currently planning on fitting a MGF engine into his other Midas.  the owner is in the same Mini club and just down the road and it is stuff I enjoy doing and can do, most Germans don't do stuff like this they pay someone at a garage to do it.

[tiger99]

Mutilating a Verto clutch mechanism by converting it to something like a pre-verto is going to do no good at all in the long term. The thrust races do not normally wear out, because most clutches will not be on what I suggested are possible tolerance limits. I got about 150k miles out of one. It is when you get the odd one with all the tolerances adding up that there are problems. I was suggesting that the case of severe wear is one of those.

But forcibly disabling the self-adjusting feature, and causing a rapid spin-up of the bearing every time you operate the clutch, accompanied by much momentary skidding of top hat against fingers every time it spins up, is going to accompany just what? I predict much more wear, because it is not a properly designed rolling element bearing that is skidding, but plain steel on steel, unlubricated and not even all that smooth.

The only thing that needs to be fixed on the Verto is the centering, not the continuous light contact, which by the way is common on many modern cars. My daily driver is now at 120k miles with no sign of clutch distress. But it has good centering of the direct acting hydraulic cylinder.

Number 1 rule of engineering "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." And if you do fix it, at least fix the correct thing.

[Pigeonto]

tiger99, on 27 Oct 2016 - 11:37 PM, said:tiger99, on 27 Oct 2016 - 11:37 PM, said:

Mutilating a Verto clutch mechanism by converting it to something like a pre-verto is going to do no good at all in the long term. The thrust races do not normally wear out, because most clutches will not be on what I suggested are possible tolerance limits. I got about 150k miles out of one. It is when you get the odd one with all the tolerances adding up that there are problems. I was suggesting that the case of severe wear is one of those.

But forcibly disabling the self-adjusting feature, and causing a rapid spin-up of the bearing every time you operate the clutch, accompanied by much momentary skidding of top hat against fingers every time it spins up, is going to accompany just what? I predict much more wear, because it is not a properly designed rolling element bearing that is skidding, but plain steel on steel, unlubricated and not even all that smooth.

The only thing that needs to be fixed on the Verto is the centering, not the continuous light contact, which by the way is common on many modern cars. My daily driver is now at 120k miles with no sign of clutch distress. But it has good centering of the direct acting hydraulic cylinder.

Number 1 rule of engineering "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." And if you do fix it, at least fix the correct thing.

Some valid points there Tiger.  I'll be leaving my modified version as it is however and time will tell how it all fares; been there for many many miles now and the cover is centred up properly. FYI, it is the later type top hat which has the nylon crinkley anti-rattle sleeve between the mounting boss extension and top hat so the top hat remains in contact with the release fingers and indeed consistent with engine rpm therefor not skidding . The initial 'spin up' occurs between the race and the top hat as per a traditional set up, well not modern vehicles in constant contact as you point out. On those long journeys with no clutch use it's quite nice to know there's no wear taking place. All good informative stuff for those of us with an appetite for these things

Edited by Pigeonto, 28 October 2016 - 03:49 PM.

[tiger99]

Yes please do keep us informed about how it goes. That sort of information can tell us a lot about the true cause of problems and how to eliminate them. If other people happen to be doing long term tests on other configurations, that too is good.