13 replies to this topic

[Brit in RacingGreen]

Your thoughts on the work of a previous owner would be appreciated. Discovered while removing carpets.  Safe or unsafe? (I'm going with unsafe).

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[Swift_General]

Unsafe. And a likely MOT failure if visible to the tester.

[Brit in RacingGreen]

I suspected as much. It looks to me like the captive nut on the crossmember is missing. They're supposed to be welded in, am I right?

[Boycie]

They are spot-welded in before the cross member is fitted 

 

I wonder if you could use one of those expanding fittings that builders use on plasterboard in houses?!  No replacement for the right way, but it would make that bracket more secure.

 

edit- or a rivnut?

Edited by Boycie, 09 April 2017 - 09:22 PM.

[Cooperman]

A Rivnuts might work OK.
Another way would be to drill a larger hole in the other side of the cross-member directly opposite the seat bracket bolt hole and big enough to get a 1/4" square drive 7/16" AF socket through. Using a long socket extension bar a nut can be attached to a bolt through the bracket and crossmember front face. Hold the nut still and tighten the bolt with a flat washer under the bolt head.

[GraemeC]

I don't think they were originally welded in position - more swaged into a hole. Therefore it it is missing then chances are the remaining hole is much larger than that needed for bolt.
As such Cooperman's repair would work but just to clarify - the large washer would need to be inside the cross member (I'm not sure which way he is recommending the bolt to be inserted).

[nicklouse]

interesting.

 

and not as bad as it looks (don't get me wrong it is bad and would raise questions at the MOT).

 

I wonder if the bracket is just a poor fit and the captive nut is still there you can see the holes are not aligned.

 

 

and then there are the forces that would go through the bracket. not much really. as in a crash situation the seatbelt is the thing that holds both the sitter and the seat in place.

[tiger99]

The nuts on my Minis seemed to be welded like all other captive nuts on the Mini. (If you know that is not correct, please say so.) Something like a Rivnut (very useful in the correct places) is insufficiently strong for a seat mount. And as for builders fixings, no way.....

 

The fundamental problem is that the metal is rather thin. Cooperman's suggestion is the most practicable for most people.  The minimally invasive procedure is to drill the hole to just clear the wide end of a 3/8" drive socket. But during a restoration, with floor removed, it would be expedient to fit a reinforcing plate inside the crossmember with the two nuts (ordinary nuts) securely MIG/TIG/ARC (as available) welded to it and the plate well secured by welding round its edge, so that there is no way of any nut ever breaking loose again.

 

Or, if not fussed about appearance (maybe planning a restoration in a couple of years and just want it safe for now) you could make reinforcement plates as described, and weld them securely to the outside of the crossmember with the nuts on the inside, old nuts removed and holes enlarged as needed. Considering that they are almost out of sight, that would do me until I had the floor or crossmember out at a later date. I did that on my old van, which had very little residual value back in 1970, and it kept it going. I used 1/8" plate.

 

Bodgers just weld the seat mount brackets to the crossmember and use the pivot bolts to detach the seat when necessary. I have seen it done, and it could be safe, but not recommended!

[minimans]

Ooo I'm a bodger then! If the seat bracket is properly welded to the cross member then it's all good it will be stronger than the original swaged nuts. I do this because I mount the brackets on the rear of the cross member so that my legs arn't up around my ears when driving................

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[Brit in RacingGreen]

I'll have another look at it at the weekend and see what's hidden under the bracket.  I think the captive nut is missing, but it's difficult to see through the 38 years worth of dead skin cells, random pubic hair and bits of old sausage roll.

[Brit in RacingGreen]

Well...it tasted like sausage roll.

[tiger99]

Minimans, yes you qualify as a bodger, on aesthetic grounds! Your seat will be secure of course. 😆

[morley]

I remember a similar thing happening to mine, I drilled a hole on the other side of the crossmemebr and put a piece of threaded bar through with some large washers and bolted it together.

[tiger99]

That is not a safe and acceptable fix because the nuts will not stay tight, as there is nothing o prevent the crossmember from crushing. You always need an internal spacer to make something like that work safelym