16 replies to this topic

[grahama]

Hi all,

I went to start my mot prep after winter and looked at the wheels. They were wobbling on the hub so I stripped it down and found there were gaps in between the bearings and centre spacer, is this correct?? Also the outer hub the disc is bolted to doesn't seem to go in fully, is this correct. The bearings seem loose and wobbly when off the car but I sort of expected that with no load on them, but can't seem to get things tightened up !!

According to Haynes I have everything in place, no bits missing !

Any ideas or help appreciated

Graham

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[tiger99]

Did you use the special washer when last replacing them, to get the inners and the flange seated properly? Also, were the outer races firmly seated against the shoulder in the hub bore before fitting the inner races? It seems to me that what happened last time must be the cause, but not sure what.

The inner races should butt up to the spacer if pushed firmly by hand from both sides, with the spacer centred. If they do not, the bearings would be badly damaged when the hub nut was torqued up. You can't use the hub nut to force the outer races into position, as I expect you know.

There is something very wrong, and if it has been run like that you will need new bearings anyway. But before you go spending money, we need to get to the root cause, so it does not happen again. I would suggest that the first action should be to remove the inner races, clean off any grease, and post up some pictures of the outer races, without removing them from the hub yet. The surface condition may tell something.

By the way, what brand are the bearings? I think I see the word "England" but can't read the rest of the engraved information.

[Rapidmini59]

Expand the pic and it can be read TIMKEN LM?7D?7A ENGLAND
Hope this is of use.

[grahama]

Hi,

The bearings are brand new timken. It has not been driven on so mint inside and loads of CV grease used on installation so all protected. I wasn't aware the hub nut pinched the bearings in but using pressure it's seems to meet up fine inside.

Could the hub nut not being at 60lb/ft be the cause?? Another thing I noticed was the CV joint , after swivel hub removed from car could be pushed and pulled with the drive shaft, passenger side. My assumption was that the shaft moved along the splines within the pot joint but circlip prevented it coming out. ???

I have changed the car from drums to discs, are the upper and lower arms the same, just thinking it may have a knock on effect if not ??

Think tomorrow i will put back together and torque hub nut up to 60lb/ft and see how it sits.

Your thoughts??

Graham

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[grahama]

Special washer??

Water shields on inner , yes, split washer dust seal spacer on inner, yes.

[Steve220]

Special washer??

Yeh, I thought that when I first saw it on this forum. Never used one though. I use a press.

[grahama]

Ah, the split chamfered washer.

I remember reading somewhere that this needs compressing first before the hub nut. If only I could remember where I saw it. I have it installed naturally but haven't compressed it prior to doing hub nut up.


Graham

[tiger99]

The torque is a lot highter than 60 lb ft. For exact figure and tightening procedure please refer to the Haynes manual. I don't have it to hand, but from memory it is up near 200lb ft and then to the next split pin hole. 60 lb ft would be for drums with the hub flange engaging both bearings, an entirely different structure. The special flat washer is required to pull the CV into the bearings tightly. It is then removed and the split cone washer fitted for final torquing. If you don't do that, the split cone will lock up on the shaft before the bearings are tight, giving exactly the symptoms that you have. Easily fixed,just go through the correct procedure with the washer. I had understood that these were old bearings, otherwise I would have said that in my first reply.

Rapidmini59, I was on a phone and even when zoomed in the vital bit was illegible. However I was suspecting, and hoping, that they were Timkens because that removes one possible problem.

Edited by tiger99, 02 May 2017 - 06:15 PM.

[grahama]

Thanks everyone,

Great as ever. Will torque up tomorrow and see how it goes and report back.

Graham

[Spider]

Before reassembling, can I suggest you try the fit of the Split Tapered Washer on to the CV. Where the Thread for the CV Nut (on the CV) finishes, there's a shot plain section. The Tapered Washer must be able to easily slip over this plain section. If it doesn't, and the Tapered Washer is otherwise OK, spread it a little until it does. 

 

If the Tapered Washer doesn't slip over that section of the CV, then it will never tighten up properly.

 

There's some more here, which has been updated to include advice on greasing the bearings;-

 

http://www.theminifo...wheel-bearings/

 

The CV Nut Torque for Disc Brake CVs, as Tiger mentioned, is somewhat more than 60 ft / lb, but isn't quite straight forward either.

 

If your CV has 2 split pin holes through it, the torque is 150 ft / lb, then continue tightening to the net slot in the nut to allow for the split pin.

 

If the CV has one hole for the split pin, the torque is 197 ft / lb and then as per above.

[GraemeC]

Opening a can of worms.....
Are single hole CVs made to a better material spec than two hole ones? Although I know it is what the manual suggests, there really is no logical reason for the tightening torque to be different.

[nicklouse]

Ah, the split chamfered washer.

I remember reading somewhere that this needs compressing first before the hub nut. If only I could remember where I saw it. I have it installed naturally but haven't compressed it prior to doing hub nut up.


Graham

nope. there is now a flat washer for the sole purpose of fitting the bearings http://www.minispare...Tools.aspx|Back to shop

[Spider]

Are single hole CVs made to a better material spec than two hole ones?

 

Yes, they are.

 

Getting more compression in to the assembly does actually make them last a lot longer and that's why they up-ed the spec of them.

[grahama]

All torqued up, there is still a midge of play. The driver side is fine. I may try another CV joint. I have the single hole type so torqued up good n tight.

Would worn bearings inside the CV joint itself cause this??

Also the wheel is sitting not square. What I mean is the top of the wheel is sticking out further than the bottom so the wheel isn't at 90 deg to the floor. Is this OK. (standard arms/tie rods etc)

[Rapidmini59]

Further investigation is im afraid required.
Further input from those with better knowledge will be required