38 replies to this topic

[Xinarin13]

The title says it all really... I have been doing some much needed maintenance that the previous owner/s never performed. The other day I found out that my new to me mini has hilos installed and the cones have been replaced with springs. While excited that I don't have to do those upgrades in the future, it made me realize a few things and brought up a few questions and worries.

​First, my mini is lowered... I didn't know this when I bought it, but there is barely enough room to fit 2 fingers between my tire and the arch. Having a look at the shocks, they are Gmax supersports, but I am not sure if they are the lowered ones or not, and I am pretty sure the front right one is bad (sitting in drivers seat). While playing with it I noticed that the shock seemed to move very easily, wheras the left side does not. In addition, I have been having some really terrible performance when driving over very small bumps and imperfections in the road... almost like there is no suspension at all sometimes. It rides fine on the very little smoothish stuff, like cracks and small dips, but if I hit the cement platform for a retractable bollard (with the bollard down obviously) which sits less than 1" (probably around 2cm high) there is a bang and it is disconcertingly jarring enough that my wife won't ride in Dusty with me. I figure pulling them off tomorrow and comparing them couldn't hurt... any advice on what to look for? 

 

While under Dusty earlier in the week I noticed that she needs new knuckle joints as well, since the boot on the front right is split. This also might help explain why she takes small bumps so poorly.

 

My main question right now is whether it is necessary to have the lowered shocks, or if the Kayaba Gas A Just ones will work (I'm not sure quite what it means by self adjustable either). I have it on the lift tomorrow for ball joint replacement and was thinking about pulling out the shocks, trumpets, and springs and having a look at what I have going on in there. I am really wanting to do this since I noticed that the trumpet (while Dusty is flying and the arms are hanging) on the right side is easily movable, so I am wanting to take a look and make sure the bump stop is still there and make sure nothing is wrong... might be nothing... hope it is nothing. I am very new to working on cars aside from oil changes, and the truest green when talking about minis (though I am working hard to remedy that).

 

 

I am fairly mechanically savvy, but I have never learned how many of the parts of a car work beyond the obviously observable, so if any of this throws up warning signs, please shout out and let me know what I am dealing with here while I fiddle about trying to figure out what I am doing.

[nicklouse]

your problem is that one the car is lowered and second it has coils springs fitted.

 

both shocks should move in and at the same rate as each other compression and rebound may not be the same.

 

lowered shocks don't really do to much  other than reduces the rebound motion of the hub that can cause issues with the ball joints failing. this can also be rectified with an 1/8" spacer under the rebound rubber under the top arm.

 

my tip if shocks are worn replace and fit some new rubber cones. if the adjustable trumpets are HiLos then great use them but if they do not have a round profile for contact with the rubber sell them on with the springs.

[nicklouse]

will add some images of what coils can do when I get home. Unless Moke Spider beats me to it.

[Xinarin13]

I feel like understood almost everything you just said, but I think there are a few typos that are throwing me off... What was the part about adding a 1/8" spacer? Are you saying that I can get normal shocks to do essentially the same as the lowered ones if I were to add a 1/8" spacer? If so, that would be great as the lowered shocks are more expensive and we have no money at the moment. (we just moved to Japan on military orders)

​As for the rest, it sounds like you really don't like coils? Is this pertaining to all forms of driving, or are you mostly talking about either road use or track use?

 

The plan right now is to inspect the shocks tomorrow and get the knuckles ordered. If the shocks need doing, it will be something my wife an I will have to figure out... but adding in new trumpets and cones will not be in the budget for some time if I do wind up wanting to swap that out again. I was however under the impression that the coils were an upgrade to the rubber cones... Those had been on the list of things to do.

​I appreciate the fast response by the way!

[Spider]

​As for the rest, it sounds like you really don't like coils?

 

I don't think for Nick or myself it not a case of 'not liking them' but a case of they don't work nearly as well as rubber cones and they can result in serious damage.

 

They don't work as well as they have a linear rate, are not 'tunable' and have no self damping, so considerably better dampers are needed to get them back close to rubber cones in this regards.

 

The damage occurs as the Mini Suspension will out travel any coil spring out there, though, if lowered a long way, it's less likely that the damage will occur, though when lowered to this extent, the ride will be poor as it'll be hitting the bump stops often if not riding on them all the time. The other issue here is that when run this low, the spring will want to fall out at full extension.

 

This some of the things you can expect to see (and these all came from different cars)

 

 

 

 

 

[nicklouse]

​As for the rest, it sounds like you really don't like coils?

i love coils but there is nothing available for the classic mini that is suitable.

 

the ones that go in the subframe. see above.

the ones that go on the top arm to the original mount are totally the wrong angle leading to a falling rate suspension design and with a linear rate spring leads to a very harsh ride that wallows in corners and spends most of its time on the bumpstops.

 

 

 

as you can see mine are nothing like the kits out there and i also have very limited travel dialled in.

Edited by nicklouse, 08 March 2018 - 05:22 PM.

[Xinarin13]

Oof, now you guys have me nervous about my coils. Are they fine in the rear, or do those also have problems, as far as potential damage?

[Xinarin13]

Also, Nick, did you see my question about the spacers and the standard shocks? Could you clarify a bit?

[nicklouse]

well the rear upper shock mount is not designed to take any load. the pin on the radius are is not really thick enough and it will bend. i have bolts in mine so i can change them out as needed. also you cant really add passengers as you will compress the springs too much.

 

not to mention the side loading on the shock shaft due to the dog leg mounting to the wheel arch.to allow them clearance to the wheels and wheel arch.

[nicklouse]

Also, Nick, did you see my question about the spacers and the standard shocks? Could you clarify a bit?

Spider might explain it better.  under the top arm there is a rebound rubber. if the suspension has been lowered and some neg camber added you do not want your wheels drooping to far. so ST recommended a 1/8" spacer to be placed under it to stop the arm . shocks for lowered cars are shorter so stop the arm moving too far as well. you can also fit the top mounts that have the mounting point raised. same effect but retains the standard length shock.

[nicklouse]

Oof, now you guys have me nervous about my coils. Are they fine in the rear, or do those also have problems, as far as potential damage?

oh and if you mean the same type of coils in the subframe then yes they have the same issues as the front except for the frame failing quite as dramatically.

[Cooperman]

OP, your best bet is to fit a set of original spec rubber spring cones. They are by far the best suspension for a road Mini. For a pure race car it might be a different matter, but race cars have completely different requirements from road cars.

[Ethel]

The spacer is for the bump stop to avoid the suspension bottoming out the damper. Not all dampers are equal as far as travel goes and calling them lowered doesn't tell you a that much comparing different brands.

 

Rubber suspension is a major part of what makes a Mini Minilike. A tiny car on tiny wheels capable of carrying huge variations in load, relative to its light weight, with limited suspension travel and fantastic handling. You can't use anything else and not expect to compromise some of that.

[Xinarin13]

That makes sense. When you say the bump stop, I am assuming you mean the upper cone(ish) shaped one and not the one under the arm... now I will have to save up and try to find a decent set of cones that wont break the bank.

Edited by Xinarin13, 09 March 2018 - 12:47 AM.

[nicklouse]

That makes sense. When you say the bump stop, I am assuming you mean the upper cone(ish) shaped one and not the one under the arm... now I will have to save up and try to find a decent set of cones that wont break the bank.

that is not the one i am on about.

 

under this one

http://www.minispare...MS.aspx|Back to

Edited by nicklouse, 09 March 2018 - 01:08 AM.