20 replies to this topic

[phillrulz]

Hi guys, just broke down ( sat at traffic lights and the engine just turned off no coughing or spluttering just turned off) 1986 mini city e converted to unbalased electronic ignition with a lucas sport coil. Coil was supplied with the electronic ignition so is compatible.

 

As you do with any break down, started checking for a spark. No spark. Opened dissy checked it was turning-yep  cleaned rotor arm and the brass contacts in cap. Managed to crank it over. 

 

Just got it home with no indicators. So checked fuse 1`found the contacts to be barely holding the fuse ( bent in for now new on order) Checked fuse 1 as my unbalasted supply is from the live side of this fuse.

 

While checking the coil i put my hand on the negative LV side. Got a kick. Less than a sparkplug lead direct kick but it was there. 

 

Is this normal magnetic field breakdown or possible failed coil (less than 2 months old) . 

 

 

My battery terminals are loose but not ratterling - know this is a big no no but it felt tight enough will order some new terminals 

 

Unsure if this is related. 

Also noticed prior in the day just installed a musical air horn which i ran from my own fuseboard ( relay supplied from solenoid live ) as i hadnt had any switches i was ghetto triggering the relay for the horn by shorting a supply to the relay coil from two bare wires inside the car. Also noticed a shock here, however put it down to the inductive properties of the relay coil making a spike when i opened it. 

[Spider]

 

While checking the coil i put my hand on the negative LV side. Got a kick. Less than a sparkplug lead direct kick but it was there. 

 

Is this normal magnetic field breakdown or possible failed coil (less than 2 months old) . 

 

I'd suggest your Condensor has had the biscuit. There can be the very smallest (barely noticeable) kick here, but nothing that you'd normally feel.

[phillrulz]

 

 

While checking the coil i put my hand on the negative LV side. Got a kick. Less than a sparkplug lead direct kick but it was there. 

 

Is this normal magnetic field breakdown or possible failed coil (less than 2 months old) . 

 

I'd suggest your Condensor has had the biscuit. There can be the very smallest (barely noticeable) kick here, but nothing that you'd normally feel.

 

 

 

I dont think it even has a condenser 

 

 

According to powerspark website -

"If you can't get the ignition to work once installed, try these suggestions:

Check the wiring:
1. Condenser and wires from distributor should not be installed in vehicle once the kit is in place

"

 

And asper KernowCooper's guide you take the condenser out. 

Edited by phillrulz, 26 May 2018 - 08:22 PM.

[cal844]

There shouldn't be a condenser fitted. I'd check the resistance of the coil, your new feed should be live with the ignition on(pos 2 on key) so I'd now be checking connections are clean and tight

Edit if there is definitely 12v on the negative side of the coil, I'd be inclined to say that yes the coil is shot (I replaced mine with a GCL143 unipart numbered coil)

Edited by cal844, 26 May 2018 - 08:30 PM.

[CityEPete]

I'm imagining a bodge job here I'm afraid, something earthing via the coil, relay coil, air horn pump windings, bad connections etc etc maybe the coil back feeding the dodgy fuse box somehow.

[phillrulz]

There shouldn't be a condenser fitted. I'd check the resistance of the coil, your new feed should be live with the ignition on(pos 2 on key) so I'd now be checking connections are clean and tight

Edit if there is definitely 12v on the negative side of the coil, I'd be inclined to say that yes the coil is shot (I replaced mine with a GCL143 unipart numbered coil)

 

 

I checked connections at road side  unplugged and replugged all coil connections. Could be what made it work but they were all tight. 

 

Coil primary resistance 3.1Ohms 

[CityEPete]

There shouldn't be a condenser fitted. I'd check the resistance of the coil, your new feed should be live with the ignition on(pos 2 on key) so I'd now be checking connections are clean and tight

Edit if there is definitely 12v on the negative side of the coil, I'd be inclined to say that yes the coil is shot (I replaced mine with a GCL143 unipart numbered coil)

If you apply voltage to the coil + connection without anything grounding the - out the 12v will pass through to the negative terminal, perfectly normal.

Now if there's power at the coil with the ignition off something is wired wrong.

[phillrulz]

I'm imagining a bodge job here I'm afraid, something earthing via the coil, relay coil, air horn pump windings, bad connections etc etc maybe the coil back feeding the dodgy fuse box somehow.

 

 

Fuse board is fed via a wire to starter solenoid, this is switched via a relay controlled from ignition switch.

 

Airhorn live is switched via a relay which is switched via a fused supply from my fuseboard. I have an earth starpoint which is a long bolt in the wing. 

 

Didnt use the horn when it cutout. So the relay would have been open and no physical connection via the airhorn compressor winding.... 

[Spider]

 

 

 

While checking the coil i put my hand on the negative LV side. Got a kick. Less than a sparkplug lead direct kick but it was there. 

 

Is this normal magnetic field breakdown or possible failed coil (less than 2 months old) . 

 

I'd suggest your Condensor has had the biscuit. There can be the very smallest (barely noticeable) kick here, but nothing that you'd normally feel.

 

 

 

I dont think it even has a condenser 

 

 

According to powerspark website -

"If you can't get the ignition to work once installed, try these suggestions:

Check the wiring:
1. Condenser and wires from distributor should not be installed in vehicle once the kit is in place

"

 

And asper KernowCooper's guide you take the condenser out. 

 

 

Sorry - I just picked up that you have an electronic kit fitted !!

There's usually a reverse diode (back EMF Circuit) in the module to eliminate this occurring.

 

If it runs, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

[phillrulz]

There shouldn't be a condenser fitted. I'd check the resistance of the coil, your new feed should be live with the ignition on(pos 2 on key) so I'd now be checking connections are clean and tight

Edit if there is definitely 12v on the negative side of the coil, I'd be inclined to say that yes the coil is shot (I replaced mine with a GCL143 unipart numbered coil)

 

Not sure if its 12v at negative side of the coil. There is HV tho a few KV just enough to make you flintch, just measured now at the coil ignition (EDIT :on but engine off) im getting 12.7 either side of the coil. However the powerspark could be closed shunting the coil.... 

Edited by phillrulz, 26 May 2018 - 08:55 PM.

[CityEPete]

I'm imagining a bodge job here I'm afraid, something earthing via the coil, relay coil, air horn pump windings, bad connections etc etc maybe the coil back feeding the dodgy fuse box somehow.

Fuse board is fed via a wire to starter solenoid, this is switched via a relay controlled from ignition switch.

Airhorn live is switched via a relay which is switched via a fused supply from my fuseboard. I have an earth starpoint which is a long bolt in the wing.

Didnt use the horn when it cutout. So the relay would have been open and no physical connection via the airhorn compressor winding....

I wonder if something is back feeding the original fuse box from the new additions, that's powering the coil constantly and creating other strange goings on?

I've seen relays passing voltage between the coil windings and volt free contacts.

[CityEPete]

There shouldn't be a condenser fitted. I'd check the resistance of the coil, your new feed should be live with the ignition on(pos 2 on key) so I'd now be checking connections are clean and tight

Edit if there is definitely 12v on the negative side of the coil, I'd be inclined to say that yes the coil is shot (I replaced mine with a GCL143 unipart numbered coil)

Not sure if its 12v at negative side of the coil. There is HV tho a few KV just enough to make you flintch, just measured now at the coil igniton off im getting 12.7 either side of the coil. However the powerspark could be closed shunting the coil....

That's normal imo as long as that's with the key switched on?

[phillrulz]

 

 

I'm imagining a bodge job here I'm afraid, something earthing via the coil, relay coil, air horn pump windings, bad connections etc etc maybe the coil back feeding the dodgy fuse box somehow.

Fuse board is fed via a wire to starter solenoid, this is switched via a relay controlled from ignition switch.

Airhorn live is switched via a relay which is switched via a fused supply from my fuseboard. I have an earth starpoint which is a long bolt in the wing.

Didnt use the horn when it cutout. So the relay would have been open and no physical connection via the airhorn compressor winding....

I wonder if something is back feeding the original fuse box from the new additions, that's powering the coil constantly and creating other strange goings on?

I've seen relays passing voltage between the coil windings and volt free contacts.

 

 

Hmm only thing ive done to the old fuseboard, is steal an ignition switched supply  for the relay to power my board, and a supply from live side of fuse 1 . 

 

The fuse board i installed over a year ago no issues. 

 

The electronic ignition / unballasted supply i did 2 months ago and it has done the london to brighton since so had a good drive. 

 

All ive done today is take two feeds from my fuseboard:

 

One is what will be a toggle switch when its delivered, i was shorting this by hand this is the relay which switches the horns supply

Second feed i took was the airhorn compressors switched supply via thew relay previously stated. 

Two earths added to my earth. The relay coil neg and the compressor neg. 

[phillrulz]

 

 

There shouldn't be a condenser fitted. I'd check the resistance of the coil, your new feed should be live with the ignition on(pos 2 on key) so I'd now be checking connections are clean and tight

Edit if there is definitely 12v on the negative side of the coil, I'd be inclined to say that yes the coil is shot (I replaced mine with a GCL143 unipart numbered coil)

Not sure if its 12v at negative side of the coil. There is HV tho a few KV just enough to make you flintch, just measured now at the coil igniton off im getting 12.7 either side of the coil. However the powerspark could be closed shunting the coil....

That's normal imo as long as that's with the key switched on?

 

 

Yea the voltage is there with the key on the "run" position so whats that position 2? 

 

Position 1 accessories 

Position 2 run

Position 3 Crank 

[CityEPete]

Yes that sounds OK then, is it running as normal now then?