18 replies to this topic

[MIJ]

After hoping to do some events this year, things have just got in the way and haven't got round to getting out. I *think* the car is pretty much ready to be used. However I'm looking for some advice on definite things I should maybe consider before going through scrutineering in the future. I have things like -
-Earth cable in yellow
-ok sos board
-electric cut out for battery
- all tools, spare wheel, jack etc strapped down in the boot
- seats bolted to the floor to stop tilt...I believe this is required?
- tripmeter and a timer
-sump guard

Is there anything else that jumps out I have missed?
I've also kept all interior in the car but having seen some cars, some dont seem to have much fitted! Although I think I'd rather a bit of carpet for comfort!

Thanks in advance.

Edited by MIJ, 13 September 2018 - 12:44 PM.

[GraemeC]

Spill kit, first aid kit, warning triangle
Brake fluid level easy to check
All lights working and spots dipping

If you haven’t already, download a copy of the blue book from the MSA website and read the section relevant to the discipline and car.

Edited by GraemeC, 11 September 2018 - 03:38 PM.

[Cooperman]

Pre-1967 historic rally cars don't need rear seats or carpets.

You will need to be carrying an oil spill kit.

The front bulkhead should be fireproofed. I use an aluminium sheet with sealer around the edge. I route the speedo cable in near to the wiper motor, using an 1100 cable which is longer. Then it drives the Brantz trip-meter without the sensor getting too hot and without the cable having to go through the fireproofing plate.

You will need a hand-held fire extinguisher.

All pipes carrying hot fluid inside the car must be metal braided and marked with red. I use red paint on the metal braiding.

Brake, fuel and battery lines should run inside the car. In the case of the fuel pipe it must be continuous and 'protected' inside the car.

Good advice is to fit twin electric fuel pumps in parallel with each pump separately wired, switched and fused.

 

I hope this helps.

[keefr22]

Pre-1967 historic rally cars don't need rear seats or carpets.

You will need to be carrying an oil spill kit.

The front bulkhead should be fireproofed. I use an aluminium sheet with sealer around the edge. I route the speedo cable in near to the wiper motor, using an 1100 cable which is longer. Then it drives the Brantz trip-meter without the sensor getting too hot and without the cable having to go through the fireproofing plate.

You will need a hand-held fire extinguisher.

All pipes carrying hot fluid inside the car must be metal braided and marked with red. I use red paint on the metal braiding.

Brake, fuel and battery lines should run inside the car. In the case of the fuel pipe it must be continuous and 'protected' inside the car.

Good advice is to fit twin electric fuel pumps in parallel with each pump separately wired, switched and fused.

 

I hope this helps.

 

It's been a while since I've done any road events, but are you sure you need all that done Cooperman? I think you can still do modern road rallies in more or less completely standard cars - is it that different for historics? 

 

This is taken from http://www.historicr...ing_started.pdf

 

5. Are car modifications acceptable?

 

If you're starting rallying you will be well advised to use a standard and reliable car. However, if your car has

any non-standard features or tuning modifications, you should ensure that they are acceptable. Generally any

modifications that were used in rallying in the relevant period (pre-1960, 1960-67 or 1968-74) are OK. You'll find

some useful information on vehicle eligibility for historic rallies on the HRCR's Historic Rally Car Technical

website, at www.hrct.co.uk and competitors are recommended to study the information there before phoning

HRCR officials with their eligibility queries.

 

6. What safety modifications are required?

Safety modifications may be advisable and will be acceptable, but most are not compulsory for any rallies in the

HRCR Clubmans Rally Championship. You can fit modern rally seats, full harness belts, roll cages and fire

extinguishers if you wish, but these are only mandatory for special stage rallies. 

[minisi35]

You may find this an interesting read
https://www.hrcr.co....r-to-rally-car/
Covers the basics but from my knowledge;
A spill kit
first aid kit
Warning triangle
Battery securely mounted and yellow earth lead
Seats must be solidly mounted

It’s things like is everything strapped down. The car will be thrown and bounced around so the last thing you need is things flying around

I have my spare wheel turned upside down with my tool bag in it then a ratchet strap from the corner by the petrol tank all the way to just in front of the battery. Using the smallest exhaust “u” clamps I could get drilled and bolted to the boot floor.
I also have a ratchet gun strapped to my front seat with a wheel nut socket on ready. The scissor jack I have is modified by welding a 1/2 socket to it for quickness
Make sure the distributor is protected. Mine has some pond liner riveted to the inside of the grille to stop the dizzy getting soaked. I also run with 2 coils , one in use and the other mounted close so in case of failure the wires can be swapped quickly and back on the road
Spares to carry
Spare bulbs (even if you check the lights before you leave they can fail before scrutineering)
Spare fuses, some electrical wire and connectors (I keep them in a pencil case in the door pocket
Bag of cable ties (hundreds of get you out of trouble uses)
5ltrs of oil and water(just my choice as it’s a long day)
Bottle of bars leak (in case of engine water leaks but only used in desperation)
Good selection of tools , screwdrivers , spanner’s ,pliers, a hammer etc
Oh and gloves( nothing worse than getting back in your car after making a repair and you have oil and dirt all over your steering wheel etc)
Think that’s it for now apart from the navigators array of things

[rally1380]

In answer to your question MIJ, the main things the scrutineer (forget about 'rally prep) will check for is if the car is eligible for starters.....so no fitting a carb that wasn't used 'in period' like a HIF44 etc.  Other things they will pick up on are things secured properly under the bonnet and nothing is flapping around and that the carb(s) have return springs....think it needs to be 2 springs IIRC?? (is that also the case on single carbs peeps???)

 

Then, the things that you NEED (very different to want) to have in the car or they will check you have done to the car are.......

 

Battery earth lead yellow and battery not flapping round

Seats bolted securely

Seat belts properly secured

No play in the steering (they definitely check this)

Brake pedal feels good

Spill Kit

Warning Triangle

 

Not sure you actually NEED to carry a first aid kit, but obviously it's a good idea.

 

The only thing I can add to the above suggestions is carry a small bag of nuts, bolts and washers of different sizes you may require......If a nut falls off you don't want to be crawling on hands and knees in gravel to find it.  And yes it can happen as I found out in the middle of Clocaenog forest in 2014....luckily I found all of the tie bar nuts, washers and bushes!!!!!

 

I was going to say you don't NEED a roll cage, but after recent tragic events on the VoCC I don't think i'll ever enter an event without one. Yes it could have happened to anyone in any car and it was on the public highway so why should you need a cage, but I think the crew (certainly the driver) wouldn't be here without it.

 

Best of luck with your rallying though, fingers crossed i'll see you on an event at some time if I ever get my car rebuilt!!!!!

[Cooperman]

Yes, you probably don't need everything I have listed, but all of them are a good idea if you want reliability with safety and a chance of a good finishing position.

[rally1380]

Yes, you probably don't need everything I have listed, but all of them are a good idea if you want reliability with safety and a chance of a good finishing position.

 

Very much so...which is why I did exactly as you suggested to mine....my comments were purely based on "what will a scrutineer want to see" standpoint rather than, "what will get you to the end of the rally".

[MIJ]

Thanks all for the great help! Spill Kit and first aid isn't something I had, and will be getting now. I planned to just get what it needs to pass scuitneering, it has a cage fitted and some more modern seats and harnesses for safety. I want to get some rally's under my belt first and decide what to upgrade, or improve as I go on
Thanks again

[Cooperman]

I would certainly advise running the brake, fuel and battery lines inside the car. They are just so vulnerable running underneath the floor. It is so easy to rip them off on a bit of rough road, or, more likely, if you run wide and drive on a bit of rough ground on a test. I can tell you that lying underneath a Mini, in the rain, whilst trying to stop petrol running up your arms ain't much fun  .

Also, fireproof the boot. A Mini boot is not fireproof as there are gaps up both sides of the rear seat back and a big hole in the parcel shelf. 

 

One other thing if I may. The battery cover is not really adequate. On my cars I make up an aluminium cover for the battery, rubber lined, and put it over the battery with a thin bungey cord. Then if anything falls on it the battery is protected and can't short out. In fact, it is safe to put things on top of this battery cover. I always run with 2 spare wheels,the side-jack, a wheel brace and the jack handle tied down in the boot, plus a tool roll and a piece of 3/4" thick wood, about 12" x 4" to put the base of the jack on if necessary.

 

An electrical tip is to run the battery cable from the battery, via the master switch, to a main power point under the bonnet on the bulkhead. For the point I use a 'cotton reel' exhaust mounting. Then I distribute the power from here to 3 different fuse boxes, the starter solenoid and the ignition switch. I run two electric fuel pumps, each separately switched and earthed.

 

Feel free to PM me for more detailed information. My 1964 Cooper 'S' has done 32 historic rallies and won 5 of them outright, so it is about right.

[MIJ]

Thanks for the sound advice cooperman. I'll pm you cheers.

[keefr22]

I was going to say you don't NEED a roll cage, but after recent tragic events on the VoCC I don't think i'll ever enter an event without one. 

 

If the police and ignorant idiot politicians have their way we won't need cages before long as there won't be events to enter.

 

Sorry,off topic...

 

Keith

[Cooperman]

If that is a reference to the tragic accident in Clocaenog Forest it seems, from what I have learned that the motorcyclist was doing around 100 mph on a twisty B-road and the rally car was simply crossing the road and the motorcyclist was un-sighted when the car driver looked.

It will probably all go away as a rally incident after the inquest.

Personally I have lost interest in modern regularity historic rallies as shuffling around in 2nd gear at, say, 28 mph average is not what rallying was when I was really active.

My son has a 1978 Escort RS2000 and he is now tending towards the Targa-type rally. In fact he was 4th Overall on the recent Knutsford M.C. Targa rally and first Historic.

[rally1380]

If that is a reference to the tragic accident in Clocaenog Forest it seems, from what I have learned that the motorcyclist was doing around 100 mph on a twisty B-road and the rally car was simply crossing the road and the motorcyclist was un-sighted when the car driver looked.

It will probably all go away as a rally incident after the inquest.

Personally I have lost interest in modern regularity historic rallies as shuffling around in 2nd gear at, say, 28 mph average is not what rallying was when I was really active.

My son has a 1978 Escort RS2000 and he is now tending towards the Targa-type rally. In fact he was 4th Overall on the recent Knutsford M.C. Targa rally and first Historic.

 

Have a look at the test diagrams Pete and see what you think of my handy work.

[Cooperman]

 

If that is a reference to the tragic accident in Clocaenog Forest it seems, from what I have learned that the motorcyclist was doing around 100 mph on a twisty B-road and the rally car was simply crossing the road and the motorcyclist was un-sighted when the car driver looked.

It will probably all go away as a rally incident after the inquest.

Personally I have lost interest in modern regularity historic rallies as shuffling around in 2nd gear at, say, 28 mph average is not what rallying was when I was really active.

My son has a 1978 Escort RS2000 and he is now tending towards the Targa-type rally. In fact he was 4th Overall on the recent Knutsford M.C. Targa rally and first Historic.

 

Have a look at the test diagrams Pete and see what you think of my handy work.

 

Hi Dave,

 

I didn't know you were involved in the organisation. When I see my son, MIck, I'll ask him to show me

Mick said it was a superb event, so well done to you and to Graham.

Did you meet my lad? His Escort is great and I thought he had a good result. It is Group 2 so can't run the twin 40 DCOE carbs, but with the single carb, which came from a Capri 3000 GT, he is getting around 165 bhp. I am proud of that engine 'cause I built it! The guy who set it up said that with twin 40's it should give around 200 bhp. If he does that he can use it on stage events with 4-link axle, bigger brakes, etc.

 

PS. I can't make the Tour of Cheshire as I am going to Barrie William's memorial 'party' at Silverstone on that day.

Edited by Cooperman, 20 September 2018 - 11:57 AM.