14 replies to this topic

[paulrockliffe]

I've a load of questions about getting petrol to my HIF44 carb, I've tried to ask them several times over the last week or so, but my posts have been dropped by the server.  Hopefully I get through this time.......

 

Current setup is a normal Mini fuel tank in a Minus, Facet cube electronic fuel pump in the boot next to the tank that feeds a filter-regulator that's next to the pump.  I then have a copper fuel line running through the cabin that terminates at a filter by the passenger's feet.  From there I have a flexible hose to the carb and an over-flow hose from the carb to the wing.

 

Five current issues: 

 

1. A normal tank doesn't fit in a Minus below the parcel shelf line, as a result I have no shelf.  I need to fit a shelf to stiffen up the rear, reduce noise and let me add a couple of speakers.  I have bought a new tank that'll do the job.

 

2.  The fuel pump has packed in, so I need to order a new one. 

 

3.  The filter in the cabin needs to go so there are no joins in the fuel supply inside the cabin.

 

4.  I've no idea if the hoses etc are ethanol-tolerant.

 

5.  I'm planning to swap in a Micra engine in the next couple of years, so don't want to fit things that need to be re-done quite soon if it can be avoided.

 

So I have a few questions and I'm after advice in general on how to arrange the various parts as I've not worked on the fuel supply before and might be prone to rookie mistakes:

 

1.  All the tanks I've looked at have had a filler, two connections on top of the tank, two on the bottom.  I need a vent, flow and return (for the Injection setup) but what's the second connection on the sump for?

 

2.  What's the practical difference between the various Facet pumps?  Particularly the Posi-flow and solid-state pumps?  They're basically the same price, so why buy one over the other?  I didn't like the noise my Solid State pump made, but don't know if the Posi-flow clicks as well?  Why would I want the Silver Top pump?  Engine is a basic 1275, so my current thinking is either of the cheaper pumps will be fine and I'll get the Posi-flow as it might be quieter.

 

3.  Where is the best location for the pump and filter-regulator and do I need another inline filter?  Should the pump be below the tank so it's gravity fed, of will the pump suck as well as blow?  

 

4.  Is the filter-regulator better fitted in the Engine bay out of the way if the pump is underneath the boot floor?

 

5.  For the Micra conversion (I might run the return line now so it's ready) does the return line need a non-return valve or doesn't it matter with injection pressures and flow-rates?

 

6.  What fuel lines should I be looking for?

 

Sorry that's a lot of questions, I have tried asking them separately already, but as I said the website hasn't been taking my posts!

 

Thanks in advance!

 

[toppers3933]

I have just fitted a posi flow pump on  my car and it is way quieter than the cube pump on my dads mini. We fitted the lowest psi pump (1.5-4psi I think) and no regulator and it seems fine with the hs4 carb I'm running. I'm running a filter between the tank and the pump as recommended by facet and the pump is at a 45degree angle underneath the tank to it is self priming. The pump becomes a tad noisier when the fuel level gets quite low but its still nowhere near as noisy as the cube on my dads, so much so he's planning on changing his over the winter.

 

The regulator is best placed in the engine bay fairly close to the carb and id just buy some hose from a reputable place such as competition supplies or merlin motorsport. Make sure you get the correct internal diameter for the fittings you have on your pump and regulator (probably either 6mm or 8mm).

[nicklouse]

fuel system from carb to injection will need everything new. (possibly new tank)

 

pump fits as per the instructions. generally not above the tank. (injection pumps may need to be submersible, depends on what you get and you may manage with a swirl pot supplied by a second pump from the tank)

 

carb pressure reg as close to the carb as possible. filter before pump, note some have a filter already fitted.

 

injection have a totally different regulator fitted after the injectors with a return.

tank. speak to the maker it may be a return for a swirl pot or it may be something totally different. mine has two connection on the top one fuel out on vent. so position actually means little.

 

flexys should be R9 grade

[paulrockliffe]

Thanks, that's all really useful.

[paulrockliffe]

Re what needs replacing for an injection setup, can I not just use appropriate lines now and then swap to a pump like this later on?

 

https://www.merlinmo...80254044-otp044

[nicklouse]

ok if you were to swap to that pump later  you would need to replace the following

 

pre filter unless threads are the same but I would buy new.

 

pressure regulator.

 

and fit High pressure fuel lines through out first all with screw threads as you will need to extend in the engine bay.

 

tank would need a Minimum of 3 connections feed, return and vent.

[paulrockliffe]

OK that makes sense.  I'll have a look at fuel lines and what-not when my tank arrives and I can work out where best to run them.

[paulrockliffe]

Right, I have another handful of question.

 

I've been looking at fuel lines in the Merlin Motorsport catalogue that came with my new fuel pump.  They have a fantastic range of braided hoses going from £10 a metre up towards £100 a metre!  They all say they're not suitable to be run internally as well as being super mega money.  So I'm wondering what's wrong with the Goodridge HL836 aluminium pipes that's under £20 for a 4m roll?  

 

I'm not sure how to run the lines externally other than in the exhaust tunnel and then whether they get too hot there?  Or could I use the smaller aluminum tube and some heat-shield over the top?  Is it a problem?  There isn't a lot of room pt the exhaust, especially where it kinks around the gear selector.  It obviously needs to be lifted away from the floor pan so it can't get pinched on speedbumps.

 

If I use rolled aluminium pipe, is it easy enough to unroll, get it straight and bend to a suitable shape under the bonnet without pinching it, or is it a pain in the arse that needs special tools and the engine out of the way when you bring the pipe through?  Is it feasible to use connectors and fit it in two sections - the straight run to the engine bay, then the verticalish plumbing to the carb?  Or is it really best not to have unnecessary joins?

 

Anything else I need to know about hard pipe?  The (copper?) I have at the moment is rubber mounted, so I'd be planning to match that approach, but want to make sure it's right, hence all the daft questions.

 

Thanks

 

Paul.

[nicklouse]

it is only the 200 series that they say cant be used inside still many others that you could use.

 

re the hardline yes I would get a pipe straightener to straighten it and then use bulkhead connectors.

[paulrockliffe]

They have the 200 and 210 series pipes that say not to be used inside.  I ignored the Cohline stuff because it doesn't say one way or the other and it's a lot cheaper, so you'd assume not.  That leaves the 811 series which starts at £50 a metre, which just sounds mad! 

 

Then I read the descriptions and, to paraphrase, the 200 is really good, the 210 is better if you don't need abrasion resistance and you want to save a few grams.  But buy the 811 if you don't want the hoses to degrade and leak fuel vapour.  I thought that was a given for a fuel hose, but apparently not.

 

Just watched a few videos on youtube, looks fairly easy to work with the hardline if I use a spring bender, so that sounds like a plan.  I'll need to get the car up on jacks and work out exactly how it's going to run, then get the credit card out.....

 

Thanks for your help.

[nicklouse]

what about the 600 series? page 52

[paulrockliffe]

Hadn't seen that, well I had but it's clearly labelled "Brake and Clutch Hose", so I moved on.  I've now spotted the little box that says "100% fuel proof, suitable for in-car use."

 

What sort of internal bore do I need, for carb, but also for injection in the future?  The 600 is smaller than all the others, but 5mm sounds enough?  Is 3.5mm enough?

[nicklouse]

I would not go smaller than 5mm ID will be fine for carb and I believe should be fine for injection but I don't do injection.

[paulrockliffe]

OK, so I can basically use the 600 or the hardline.  Cost-wise I don't think there's much in it as the hardline connections are more expensive.  Any view on which will be best?

[nicklouse]

well I am basically using the 600 series for mine. (it is not but is similar). hard line will need straighteners and bending tools to look good. have a look at the skid factory on MCNTV2 on YouTube. the Barra engine Bedford CF van they use the tools needed when doing the steel brake hard lines.