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Moving To France


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#1 TheFlyingSprout

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 06:56 PM

Hi All,

 

I moved to Lyon in August from the UK with my Girlfriend.

We hope to be able to stay there depending on whether we can get jobs.

 

My 1982 Mini 1000 is almost finished. I tried my best to finish it before I left the UK but had to leave it behind with family and my plan is to return to Dorset for two weeks at the end of January and finish it and also MOT it for the first time since 2016.

 

Attached File  DSC_0276_1.JPG   60.11K   3 downloads

 

And here is where I need some advice.

I was hoping that if we settle in France successfully, I could return to England and drive it back to Lyon.

 

I am not sure what I should do in order to be able to take my car to France or what the procedure is and how tricky this is to do.

I would like to keep it on the UK plate but again I have no idea if this is even possible.

 

I have heard that some people re register it in France whereas some people return to England once a year to MOT it but how would this work with insurance?

 

Has anyone done this before or does anyone have any advice on what they would do if they were in my situation.

 

Please no comments on buying a Mini in France and selling the one I have as whilst its a MK4 it does have a MK2 Cooper Engine and Gearbox and not to mention I have spent a lot of time and effort into preparing the one I have.

 

Cheers 

 

Callum



#2 mk1leg

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 08:04 PM

Hi.. you will need the original date the mini was produced because the french Auto Technal will need this if you need help My friend Sebastien could help he lives in Normandy and he runs his mini repair and restore work shop from Ducey this is his FB page  https://www.facebook.../atelieraustin/



#3 Bat

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 11:11 PM

Hi,

It's usually a case of re-registering the car in its new country.

Most likely if you were to leave it UK registered you could only have it in France for 6 months of the year and UK insurance policies only cover you for 3 months in the EU.

Cheers  :proud:



#4 nicklouse

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 11:29 PM

re registering can be fun and France is one of the worst more so if the car is not 100% original. unless there is an exemptions for age.  talk to someone like the link above about your car so you have an idea what you may be up against.



#5 rich_959

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 08:36 AM

My parents live in france and they have been there several years with one UK registered car and one French car that they bought over there. Issue for the UK car is that they had to hunt around for an insurance policy that covers them for up to 12 months in France (and the rest of mainland europe) and the car still gets taxed and MOT'd in the UK (not so much of an issue as they come back to the UK for short trips 2 or 3 times a year). My dad works mainly in France, the UK and Italy and does a lot of miles in the UK car (prefers not to fly). Their French car is used as a local runabout, which takes all the knocks and dings in the carparks.

 

The biggest advantage that I can see, having been flashed by one or two cameras on the Auto-Route, is that they never receive any fines/tickets for the UK car (despite recent news saying they do now follow them up). I got flashed by one last summer when visiting and never received anything. 



#6 Macming

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 10:04 AM

One of the biggest Mini shops in France, is in Vienne. less than an hour away.Going with the web site it definatley looks worth a visit. I'm sure they would keep you right.

Check out there take on a hatch back mod. The Shorting Break.

 

http://auto-bmc.com/

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#7 superchiwawa

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 02:36 PM

From a EU point of view it all depends where you are registered as a resident and present in that country.

EU law states that if you are out the country for more than 6 months you must register the car in the state you are currently living in.

https://europa.eu/yo...q/index_en.htm.

I know of French people living in Belgium who have had expensive fines (1500 euros +) for not re-registering their car locally. Similar stories in Austria. But then it depends on how arsy the local police are in enforcing those laws.

 

Having a modified mini project and living abroad, I researched this extensively. The above comments are useful but what I often found is that depending on who you talk to you get different answers, event at government administration levels. Keep in the mind the UK has a much stronger car culture and therefore the information is well documented and publicly available. In other countries, unless you are a professional in the automotive market registered with the competent authorities, it's very difficult to get a straight answer as an individual. The truth is the system is pretty complex, and it all pivots around obtaining one piece of paper. Here's what I learnt and I hope it helps point you in the right directions.

You cannot register - anywhere - a vehicle without approval (homologation), so to understand vehicle registration you need to understand type approval in the EU.https://en.wikipedia...i/Type_approval

Then, once you know your rights as an EU citizen, learn how those are laws are applied and the structures available nationally (these are DREAL and UTAC in France I believe).

In summary there are 3 types.
1. EU type approval. This is what every modern car sold in the EU has since '96 and allows it to marketed across the EU without any legal barriers
2. National limited series
3. Individual type approval (IVA). Anyone can submit for this, professionals of the trade AND individuals.

2 and 3 are national, ie approved according to the laws applicable in that country only. Whilst the free movement of goods still applies, this means to be legally approved in another country the car can be subject to homologation testing if no equivalence is found or the governing laws are sufficiently dissimilar between the countries to allow a match (EU directive 2007/46/EC - Edit  notably that directive states that the country where the vehicle is to be registered cannot impose the same tests run in another member state, unless the government of that country can demonstrate a risk to public safety. The law is written in the interest of the consumer). Prior to the introduction of EU type approval all approvals were just national, since no other structure was in place.

 

So these days EU countries use the European Certificate of Conformity (= proof of EU Type Approval) for re-registering cars between member states as standard practice, and as a consequence any car pre'96 is more complicated to register. Agreements exist, but being outside the scope of everyday procedure, robotic brainless and carefree bureaucracy can makes this suuuuuper fun as nick mentioned (like telling you contact the manufacturer for a certificate, or being bounced around clueless administrations).

In France, for classic cars, the better informed will steer you towards the FFVE (Fédération Française de Véhicules d'Epoque) to deliver an Approval certificate if you don't have one or it doesn't suit the French authorities. Expect problems / difficulties if your mini is modified (no homologation, no registration, but check what you can get away with before stripping everything out). Make sure the numbers on your V5 match those on the car (engine, vin, etc). Paperwork primes.

 

Note you can import US cars for example, but they must go through their stringent and expensive approval system under their national type approval scheme (their version of an IVA, known as RTI for Réception à Titire Isolé). Each approval test is 1500 euros. No discounts for retests.
France has also been know to request these tests for vehicles registered in other member states, even if the exact same model was on sale and registered in those member states and France (pre'96 so national type approval). You may be confronted with ridiculous emissions standards if they send you down this path. Unfortunately procedure trumps common sense (nobody wants to get fired or sued in case of litigation), so best be well informed of your rights in this case.

 

By the way, do not confuse MoT (or Contrôle Technique) with type approval. The Mot is just a regular spot check once the car is registered of some of the national road safety laws. Depending on the country, they are not able to deliver the type approval paperwork that says your car complies with all those national laws. It depends on the amount of road worthiness testing that country requires for a particular vehicle and the system in place.

 

Some useful links:

Registering your car in another EU country - Moving for more than 6 months: https://europa.eu/yo...ad/index_en.htm

European Consumer Centre - cross border car registration:https://www.europe-c...d-registration/
I thoroughly recommend having a good read through the report linked in that page (the first part is about car purchase, skip to registration). It's probably the only document you'll find on the net with that comprehensive level of information complied for cross-EU car registration. I think as mentioned above, France is one of the strictest (https://www.europe-c...PORT_europe.pdf)

If member states are not applying EU law, SOLVIT is the place to go (it's a free service): http://ec.europa.eu/solvit/

Cross EU country registration problems is one of the areas they regularly deal with and have been helpful to more than a few. You have to have an actual problem first before wasting their time. They won't help you weasel your modified car into your new country (tried it prior to been well informed, but glad they exist), they apply the EU law book and seek resolution out of court if your case is legally enforceable.

 

http://www.paca.deve...s-rti-r210.html(french IVA - use google translate if you need to)

https://www.ffve.org...vehicule_ancien (importing a classic car in france, also in french)

 

Oh and if a no deal Brexit happens, people in this situation are thrown a Thor size spanner in the works. I would expect current procedures to be void as EU law no longer applies. I would be like importing a car from outside the EU with applicable import taxes.

For some, it's been relatively simple, others an administrative nightmare. Be prepared for a bit of a battle, but don't give up your mini!

Once you get through this, you'll never b***h about UK registration and road vehicle safety laws again. It's pudding by comparison.

 
 
 

Edited by superchiwawa, 30 November 2018 - 01:39 AM.


#8 superchiwawa

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 02:56 PM

One of the biggest Mini shops in France, is in Vienne. less than an hour away.Going with the web site it definatley looks worth a visit. I'm sure they would keep you right.

Check out there take on a hatch back mod. The Shorting Break.

 

http://auto-bmc.com/

 

I'm very curious as to how they got that road legal...!


Edited by superchiwawa, 29 November 2018 - 02:57 PM.


#9 Dusky

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 10:52 PM

What modifications do you have? They ll never pick up on the engine change if you kept it the same CC. Cc change wont be a problem for the MOT they have, but it lol void all insurance, of course not a problem until you actually need it..( so please don't risk it) . Suspension changes etc are very very difficult to do in France. So all depends on the car :)




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