24 replies to this topic

[minimarkybecks]

I Run a 1991 998cc Japanese Export Mini in Ontario, Canada since 2009.

Had 13 Minis over the years in the UK before that from 1992 to 2005.

 

Over the last 4 years I have replaced the front wheel bearings twice. The car only comes out in the summer and rarely sees rain.

So high mileage is not a problem.

 

The first time I fitted complete made up hubs from Mini Sport UK. Complete with ball joints and bearings fitted. The idea being that I just swap the hubs over with the originals.

So after a couple of years minimal use I had bearing noise one side and a ball joint gone on the other.

 

Again trying to save time I stripped my original hubs (now spare) to the car and fitted new Mini Spares bearings and balljoints.

After a couple of summers the bearing growl is back and on the other side a CV boot has split. These components having only seen minimal use.

 

So what am I doing wrong?!

I don't really want to strip all this out again in a couple of years.

 

I intend to fit new brake calipers (originals 29 years old and seizing), discs (warped) pads (new pins and shims), bearings (mini spares, Timken ones sold out), Front flexi brake hoses, New CV joints (old ones have bad wear patterns). New castle nuts and cone washers.

 

So I am wondering if the drive flanges have knocked the bearings out. The surfaces have wear, but not a thick groove. I am hesitant to rebuild the original hubs as they are pretty scored where the bearing runners go. My spare hubs which are newer and in better condition have some marks inside where I was not careful enough punching out the old bearings.

I think for peace of mind I will also fit new hubs and drive flanges!

 

Has anyone also had bearings fail after low mileages/use?

I have heard many causes of failure.

Bearing quality, Grease quality. Not having the metal oil seal spacer ring fitted (shown as no longer required).

Not torqued enough (I done mine to 200 lb/ft)

 

I Would be interested to hear your thoughts and ideas.

What methods and parts do you use? What bearing grease would you recommend?

 

I enjoy working on the car, but have time and money pressures like us all. But there has been a real drop in quality of parts over the last 10-15 years.

I even used to argue with Rover dealers in the UK that I wanted Rover OE parts and not Unipart Items. But those days are long gone!!

 

Thanks in advance. Mark.

Edited by minimarkybecks, 16 July 2020 - 07:48 PM.

[nicklouse]

Were they Timken bearings?

[Spider]

There's a bit of info here on some of the finer points to consider and look at when replacing Front Wheel Bearings ;-

http://www.theminifo...wheel-bearings/

 

The Hubs you had built, it's a little hard to say for sure as they were assembled by a third party so we don't know what went in to them as far as bearings go and type of grease, how much attention to detail was given, how clean they were etc. Knowing that particular crowd, at best, they would have been the cheapest bearings available or even used ones.

 

I've never had any success with after market Bearings, some failing in as little as 1000 km, and the best I eve got from them was 5000 km. I know Timkens in the UK are out of stock, but maybe look a little further afield and you'll find them. From my own experience, there is no substitute for the real thing here.

[steeley]

Wheel spacers fitted?

Back in the eighties I had 1” spacers fitted with Wellers and got through
bearings like you wouldn’t believe

Edited by steeley, 16 July 2020 - 08:10 PM.

[minimarkybecks]

Thanks Steeley.
No just the standard Rover 12” Factory ‘Minilites’ on Falken 145/70 tyres.

[minimarkybecks]

Thanks Moke Spider.
I read that long and informative article a couple of times, and the threads! It all makes sense. I may try and get the Timkens locally in Canada. But another guy I chatted to said they have had no problems with the aftermarket bearings.
He said it’s critical to torque the hub nut with a flat washer and then re-torque with the cone washer.

Edited by minimarkybecks, 16 July 2020 - 08:27 PM.

[minimarkybecks]

Were they Timken bearings?

No, one set whatever Mini Sport put in their built hubs. The other set from Mini Spares.

[minimarkybecks]

The bearing race was almost welded to the CV joint. Took a lot of clouting to remove it!  F44A6B3D-8241-48D7-9EB5-AD13127E6BCB.jpeg   28.46K   4 downloads

Edited by minimarkybecks, 16 July 2020 - 08:41 PM.

[Spider]

The bearing race was almost welded to the CV joint. Took a lot of clouting to remove it!

 

That's actually a sign of there not being enough clamping force on the Bearing Assembly. While the Nut may have been Torqued up correctly, it maybe from issues with the Split Tapered Washer binding or under size or not being a proper fit with the Drive Flange, of a worn Drive Flange.

I'd suggest stripping it down, cleaning all the parts up and then having a real close look at all the parts to see what's moving here and why. As part of these checks, you may wish to slip the Bearing Cones and Spacer etc on to the CV (off hub) and then Torque the Nut up as this may shed some light here.

[minimarkybecks]

Would you say this drive flange is re-usable?

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•  361ACA89-DED4-4507-AF11-55CD3E0B4E9C.jpeg   51.42K   1 downloads

[minimarkybecks]

The bearing race was almost welded to the CV joint. Took a lot of clouting to remove it!

That's actually a sign of there not being enough clamping force on the Bearing Assembly. While the Nut may have been Torqued up correctly, it maybe from issues with the Split Tapered Washer binding or under size or not being a proper fit with the Drive Flange, of a worn Drive Flange.

I'd suggest stripping it down, cleaning all the parts up and then having a real close look at all the parts to see what's moving here and why. As part of these checks, you may wish to slip the Bearing Cones and Spacer etc on to the CV (off hub) and then Torque the Nut up as this may shed some light here.

Thanks again, there is a pic of one of the Drive flanges below.  4378CA16-7527-4D6A-BA21-4408E6FB601C.jpeg   51.42K   2 downloads

Edited by minimarkybecks, 16 July 2020 - 09:43 PM.

[Spider]

That does look OK, but there's clear signs on it that there's been movement from lack of Clamping.

[minimarkybecks]

That does look OK, but there's clear signs on it that there's been movement from lack of Clamping.

So assuming the torque was correct. The only other thing that could cause this is worn hubs? The bearing runners moving in the hub?
Photo below shows hub. So about 27 years old. 29 years old when stripped and the bearing runners tapped out quite easily.

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•  65667A7D-CE7C-42C1-A7EC-134153597A0C.png   172.42K   3 downloads

Edited by minimarkybecks, 16 July 2020 - 09:52 PM.

[Spider]

Sorry - I only just now saw the photos of your CV and the stuck Bearing Cone on it. The CV maybe cactus as a result of this, take it apart, clean it up and then dress the shaft, I'd suggest with a Diamond Lap. Probably best to test with a new Bearing Cone, it must be able to slip over very nearly and have no play.

 

Regarding the clamping up, I can't see that an issue with the Hubs. It'll more likely be the Drive Flanges (the other side from that you've posted here) and / or the Tapered Washer and / or the Nose of the CV where the Tapered Washer sits.

 

Look inside the Tapered Washer for a shoulder that may have worn in to it, and also the Nose of the CV. There's the threaded section and just after that, before it steps up to the Splining is a Plain section. It should have the smallest of tapers on it and must be bur free. When offering up the Tapered Washer to it, it must be able to just fit on the start of that Plain section, definitely not just on the Threaded part stopping at the Plain bit and likewise, not too far up that Plain section either, no more than about 60% the way on.

These are the parts that are key to having the Nut Torque applying enough Clamping Pressure to the Assembly.

 

About a year back, I tried the KAD Tapered Washer (I was going to make some, but they saved me the trouble), these are not split and I've gotta say, I am highly impressed with them BUT they will only work properly if the CV and Drive Flange are perfect.

[minimarkybecks]

Sorry - I only just now saw the photos of your CV and the stuck Bearing Cone on it. The CV maybe cactus as a result of this, take it apart, clean it up and then dress the shaft, I'd suggest with a Diamond Lap. Probably best to test with a new Bearing Cone, it must be able to slip over very nearly and have no play.

Regarding the clamping up, I can't see that an issue with the Hubs. It'll more likely be the Drive Flanges (the other side from that you've posted here) and / or the Tapered Washer and / or the Nose of the CV where the Tapered Washer sits.

Look inside the Tapered Washer for a shoulder that may have worn in to it, and also the Nose of the CV. There's the threaded section and just after that, before it steps up to the Splining is a Plain section. It should have the smallest of tapers on it and must be bur free. When offering up the Tapered Washer to it, it must be able to just fit on the start of that Plain section, definitely not just on the Threaded part stopping at the Plain bit and likewise, not too far up that Plain section either, no more than about 60% the way on.

These are the parts that are key to having the Nut Torque applying enough Clamping Pressure to the Assembly.

About a year back, I tried the KAD Tapered Washer (I was going to make some, but they saved me the trouble), these are not split and I've gotta say, I am highly impressed with them BUT they will only work properly if the CV and Drive Flange are perfect.

I think you nailed it here Moke Spider!
The cone washers are pretty worn when compared to a new one.
I will fit new CVs anyway. But putting a new or the old cone washer on the new CV is like night and day.
The new cone washer has to be pushed onto the CV! The old one just drops on!!

The space in the flange where the cone washer goes doesn’t look too bad, but I don’t trust it!!

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