26 replies to this topic

[fokko]

I sold my brand new SIB422MG (http://minispares.co...422MG.aspx?1406) online to somebody living far away. The guy now tells me the gauge is faulty. He sent me the following messages:

 

I am using a 12G940 head and the bulb bottoms out on the edge of the water gallery. I fabricated an adapter (same like the one sold on Minispares) and it fits fine. The gauge is excellent. Super sensitive and I can see immediately the change in temp caused by any action. The electric one did not fluctuate a lot, I guess its good for people who don't muck about with the cars, but for me, I needed something almost accurate. This is perfect.

 

Some bad news... I have been trying this gauge out over longer distance and now I am finding erratic behavior. The needle drops when I accelerate. I am sharing a video to show this behavior. I am not sure why it is doing this. If there is a leak, it would be stuck. There is no other influence to cause this behavior. According to my mechanic this is a faulty gauge.

 

I have now confirmed the issue is with the needle, it is moving every time I hit a bump as well. This makes me believe the needle is not connected properly to the bourdon tube. I am not brave enough to open up the gauge to fix it.

 

In the video he talks about, you can see the gauge dips about 5 degrees.

What do you guys think? Do you think the gauge is faulty indeed? He wants me to return 50% of his money...

Edited by fokko, 28 August 2020 - 09:05 AM.

[sonscar]

Five degrees?does he think it is a precision instrument?His car may be very harsh.You do not know what it has been subjected to since it left your hands.Say you are sorry he is disappointed but no refund.I never sell anything as some buyers will always try it on and I can do without the grief.Just my 2p,Steve..

[richmondclassicsnorthwales]

We used to sell abroad at one point when we were in the UK and trading.  We stopped then selling abroad due to this type of behavior.

 

What we found was that people were either wiring or fitting items wrong, being heavy handed, and thinking that because they buy from the internet, everything comes with a money back guarantee regardless of anything. so we just said "No More"

 

These gauges are made by a welsh company as far as I know and the company is Caerbont in Swansea. They are not from good old China as far as I am aware. I purchased a few of their gauges with no problems at all. The gauges are very reliable, and I have never heard or had any feedback about failure with their gauges.

 

This too,  is my 2 penneths worth.

[Benoit_Dupont]

well... I'm not sure how the thing works internally but as mentionned above: accuracy of those things are way passed 5°C.

 

secondly, the behavior is not that erratic after all because I think you have some inertia:

 

when you accelerate, the first thing that happens is not temperature increase, but air flow increase through the radiator. thus reducing the temperature slightly before it goes up much more. makes sense because the block has a thermal capacitance it self. it does not produce heat immediately when you push the throttle.

 

So I would say that does not seem like a bad behavior.

[fokko]

Thanks for all of your thoughts so far! I agree that one doesn't know what the gauge has been subjected to. Could have even happened during transport...

 

For clearness, I uploaded the video he sent (I uploaded it to my own Youtube account without listing it):

https://youtu.be/xOtHbpviAjo

[richmondclassicsnorthwales]

If he wants perfection - then go buy a Rolls Royce or Bentley,  not a Mini !!

 

Unfortunately, I think you got your hands full with that numpty

[Benoit_Dupont]

ah ok,so no I think it's a different explanation: the gauge comes back too fast on the video to be inertia. Another explanation is sensitivity to pressure: I don't think there is any electrical power apart from the lamp in this thing, is there?

 

if it's not electrical then it is likely that the temperature is sensed via an expending metal that pushes the needle. that expending metal is likely in the "cable" and therfore it is sensitive to several things:

can be for instance sensitive to position, so if he has a "loose" engine, under load, his block might move a bit. 

it could be sensitive to pressure as well: when you push the pedal, the water pump revs and the pressure in the water circuit changes. 

[Benoit_Dupont]

If he wants perfection - then go buy a Rolls Royce or Bentley,  not a Mini !!

 

Unfortunately, I think you got your hands full with that numpty

second that :)

[nicklouse]

To be fair go tell him to whistle.

 

it was a private sale. If he wanted a warranty he should have bought new.

[gazza82]

Mechanical temp gauges DO move up and down .. they are much more sensitive to changes in the engine temperature than electric gauges.

 

Politely tell him it is working as designed.

 

Really the only way you can break one is to snap the tube from the sensor to the gauge .. (no prizes for knowing how I know that one!).

 

 

According to my mechanic this is a faulty gauge

His mechanic is also faulty!

Edited by gazza82, 28 August 2020 - 01:16 PM.

[richmondclassicsnorthwales]

There are so many bloody mechanics these days !!

 

I sold a HIF44 to someone who fitted it to his Mini Cooper. He got a garage to fit it, The customer called to say the mechanic couldn't tune it, and there was something wrong with the carb. So, I went over to tune it.

 

When I popped the bonnet, straight away I saw that the screws holding the dashpot on, were not the ones I fitted it with and the lock washers were missing.

 

I took off the pot, took the needle out, and it was a different needle to what I fitted the carb with originally.

 

No one put their hands up to ever had been effing around with it, but I told the customer he needs an honest reliable mechanic who is a mechanic and knows what they are bloody well doing !

[fokko]

Mechanical temp gauges DO move up and down .. they are much more sensitive to changes in the engine temperature than electric gauges.

 

Politely tell him it is working as designed.

 

Really the only way you can break one is to snap the tube from the sensor to the gauge .. (no prizes for knowing how I know that one!).

 

 

According to my mechanic this is a faulty gauge

His mechanic is also faulty!

 

This definitely helped compose my reply to him, thank you! And your last two lines definitely made me laugh  .

Thanks all others for leaving your thoughts here. Handling these type of situations is not my strongest quality...

[Spider]

I had one overhauled and I found it did that afterwards. I didn't find it too much of an issue once I could see what was going on. I didn't look in to it any further, though, I retained that gauge for a couple of years, eventually going Electric. I've never bothered with Capillary Gauges since.

 

In your case, it's really up to you how you'd like to handle it, but personally, I don't think it's an issue that warrants a 50% refund. The Gauge was sold (and bought by him) on the basis that it was a used item. Unless you stated that the Gauge works like new (or similar) and it was clear that it was a used item, then what does he expect ? If he wanted it to be 'like new' then maybe he should have bought a new gauge. Buying used is 'Caveat Emptor' - buyer beware.

[fokko]

If he wants perfection - then go buy a Rolls Royce or Bentley,  not a Mini !!

 

Unfortunately, I think you got your hands full with that numpty

I think you were right about me having my hands full with him...

 

I had one overhauled and I found it did that afterwards. I didn't find it too much of an issue once I could see what was going on. I didn't look in to it any further, though, I retained that gauge for a couple of years, eventually going Electric. I've never bothered with Capillary Gauges since.

 

In your case, it's really up to you how you'd like to handle it, but personally, I don't think it's an issue that warrants a 50% refund. The Gauge was sold (and bought by him) on the basis that it was a used item. Unless you stated that the Gauge works like new (or similar) and it was clear that it was a used item, then what does he expect ? If he wanted it to be 'like new' then maybe he should have bought a new gauge. Buying used is 'Caveat Emptor' - buyer beware.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience! The thing is; I sold it as being never used and bought new...

 

Anyways, got some reply from him;

 

acknowledged but the needle is not moving to temp, its moves when it hits a bump. Or with engine rock@ press accelerator. My mech also has more than 20 years experience specialising in mini. He just installed a capillary.meter for another car and.mentioned it does move so fast 3-5c. If reacting to temp , it crawls. If you see the video, the movement is with gravity@body movement not temp

Doesn't move so fast I mean.

There is free play between needle and bourdon tube assembly is what I am thinking. Nothing to do with reading itself. That works fine.

Any more thoughts? I guess I need to explain him I'm not giving warranty or something similar.

[Quinlan minor]

It's always unfortunate when a buyer appears to be unhappy but, in my experience, some are congenitally so. Since there is nothing that will change their situation and you have been more than fair, I would suggest that they got what they paid for and they're not paying for your time dealing with their complaint.

Here endeth.

Edited by Quinlan minor, 29 August 2020 - 09:05 PM.