15 replies to this topic

[fokko]

Hi, I'm currently in the process of building up my subframe. I have some previously bought Minisport adjustable bottom suspension arms (https://www.minispor...nsion-arms.html). I found out there is quite some play in the threads of the adjuster bush. I'm doubting about getting the adjustable arms from Minispares (http://minispares.co.../C-AJJ3360.aspx) as I think their quality is probably better.
 
I provided a video to explain what I mean. I did not torque up the lock nuts yet here and I know it will not move anymore when I do so, but it feels not good to have such an amount of movement on the threads:
 

 

What do you guys think about this?

[MiNiKiN]

What do you guys think about this?

I think I would rather not use these - as with the knowledge about the play in the thread, fear would be my constant companion

Edited by MiNiKiN, 09 September 2020 - 09:39 AM.

[nicklouse]

I always knew they were built to a budget but did not expect there to be that much play in the treads.

[madaboutcherry]

usual minisport quality!

[Cooperman]

I've never seen the point of adjustable lower arms except for full-on race car applications.

The 1.5 deg negative arms always work fine on road cars (and on rally cars). Maybe I'm too 'old school', but a small difference in front wheel camber, say half-a-degree, is not noticeable in normal road driving.

The rear suspension setting is a different matter.

[fokko]

I've never seen the point of adjustable lower arms except for full-on race car applications.

The 1.5 deg negative arms always work fine on road cars (and on rally cars). Maybe I'm too 'old school', but a small difference in front wheel camber, say half-a-degree, is not noticeable in normal road driving.

The rear suspension setting is a different matter.

I've had fixed length bottom arms (1.5 deg negative) and when measured it came down to 0 deg on one side and 2.5 deg negative on the other side. Although it might not be noticeable in normal road driving, it has influence on tyre wear. And on a less important side, it looks bad, but that could just be my OCD .

[fokko]

I always knew they were built to a budget but did not expect there to be that much play in the treads.

 

 

usual minisport quality!

It's actually what I already feared...

[skoughi]

I've never seen the point of adjustable lower arms except for full-on race car applications.

The 1.5 deg negative arms always work fine on road cars (and on rally cars). Maybe I'm too 'old school', but a small difference in front wheel camber, say half-a-degree, is not noticeable in normal road driving.

The rear suspension setting is a different matter.

I'm currently going through the process of checking and resetting all the suspension settings on my Clubman at the moment as I replaced the steering rack recently for the MOT. Going by settings you gave me a few years ago Cooperman! I've got adjustable everything and whilst it probably a bit overly for a road car at least it takes care of any discrepancies in both subframes. The front end settings was not too bad, I have Minispares lower arms (all the suspension components are from them) and have no issues with their quality, but I'm being rather fussy with the rear settings and it's causing my mate ,who's workshop and laser wheel alignment set up is being utilised, no end of stress! We thought we had it sussed the other evening until I got back home and checked the height difference from one side to the other and found out I had about 17mm of difference! So back to it again tomorrow for another attempt, and this time we'll wind off the hi-lo's to make things a bit easier.

[Cooperman]

 

I've never seen the point of adjustable lower arms except for full-on race car applications.

The 1.5 deg negative arms always work fine on road cars (and on rally cars). Maybe I'm too 'old school', but a small difference in front wheel camber, say half-a-degree, is not noticeable in normal road driving.

The rear suspension setting is a different matter.

I'm currently going through the process of checking and resetting all the suspension settings on my Clubman at the moment as I replaced the steering rack recently for the MOT. Going by settings you gave me a few years ago Cooperman! I've got adjustable everything and whilst it probably a bit overly for a road car at least it takes care of any discrepancies in both subframes. The front end settings was not too bad, I have Minispares lower arms (all the suspension components are from them) and have no issues with their quality, but I'm being rather fussy with the rear settings and it's causing my mate ,who's workshop and laser wheel alignment set up is being utilised, no end of stress! We thought we had it sussed the other evening until I got back home and checked the height difference from one side to the other and found out I had about 17mm of difference! So back to it again tomorrow for another attempt, and this time we'll wind off the hi-lo's to make things a bit easier.

 

Yes, it is the rear suspension which is more critical.

I have never found a big discrepency at the front with standard or fixed length lower arms. If there is a 2.5 degree difference I would suspect that the sub-frame has been damaged at some time and the use of adjustable arms is just a way of 'dialling-out' the issue, which is fine so long as the damage to the sub-frame does not include bent tie-bar front brackets, as this causes a problem with the caster angles.

[paulrockliffe]

If you're dialing out differences I assumed that means that the 4 lower and upper pivot pins are not parallel to each other in some configuration or other, which sounds like a bad thing?

[skoughi]

 

I've never seen the point of adjustable lower arms except for full-on race car applications.

The 1.5 deg negative arms always work fine on road cars (and on rally cars). Maybe I'm too 'old school', but a small difference in front wheel camber, say half-a-degree, is not noticeable in normal road driving.

The rear suspension setting is a different matter.

I've had fixed length bottom arms (1.5 deg negative) and when measured it came down to 0 deg on one side and 2.5 deg negative on the other side. Although it might not be noticeable in normal road driving, it has influence on tyre wear. And on a less important side, it looks bad, but that could just be my OCD .

 

Do you have height adjustable suspension ( Hi-Lo's)? Or maybe the rubber doughnuts are requiring replacing? Or even if the tyre pressures are different? As with my Clubman if there's even a small difference in height from one side to the other then this will have an effect on camber as a Mini isn't very wide!

Edited by skoughi, 09 September 2020 - 04:48 PM.

[Spider]

What do you guys think about this?

 

 

I've used similar arms a few times, only I got them from another supplier. They have been around a very long time. As the Threads are large in diameter, that amount of movement in the threads is normal and what one would expect. They are not intended to be precision threads like you'd find on a Micrometer. From memory these are 3/4" in dia. Next time you have the opportunity, try a 3/4 Nut on a Bolt and feel how they fit.

 

Bottom line is, they are fine and in fact a stronger design than many others out there.
 

[E23TFD]

Believe it or not but std threads have an engagement ie touching metal to metal once torqued up of only 30%. That space is to allow these to be done up easily and as mentioned above clearly this can be tighter in closer toleranced items. Trouble with this space is it allows water in and therefore corrosion and the pain to remove / adjust in the future. Use of Loctite 290 in this situation would be advised. 290 is applied after you’ve adjusted and locked down and it wickes in to the thread. Stopping it vibrating loose and also more importantly fills the gap so can’t corrode as no gap. Then just use hand tools when need to adjust to break the Loctite bond.

[Spider]

Believe it or not but std threads have an engagement ie touching metal to metal once torqued up of only 30%. That space is to allow these to be done up easily and as mentioned above clearly this can be tighter in closer toleranced items. Trouble with this space is it allows water in and therefore corrosion and the pain to remove / adjust in the future. Use of Loctite 290 in this situation would be advised. 290 is applied after you’ve adjusted and locked down and it wickes in to the thread. Stopping it vibrating loose and also more importantly fills the gap so can’t corrode as no gap. Then just use hand tools when need to adjust to break the Loctite bond.

 

Yes, Loctite would be fine, though I've only ever used some LP Grease.

[fokko]

If you're dialing out differences I assumed that means that the 4 lower and upper pivot pins are not parallel to each other in some configuration or other, which sounds like a bad thing?

 

Err, could be, I have no idea?
 

Do you have height adjustable suspension ( Hi-Lo's)? Or maybe the rubber doughnuts are requiring replacing? Or even if the tyre pressures are different? As with my Clubman if there's even a small difference in height from one side to the other then this will have an effect on camber as a Mini isn't very wide!

 
 
Yes, everything is going to be adjustable. The situation with the camber difference was only to illustrate why I want everything to be adjustable, it used to be the situation on one of my previous Mini's. I suspect this one will be OK.
 

 

What do you guys think about this?

 
 
I've used similar arms a few times, only I got them from another supplier. They have been around a very long time. As the Threads are large in diameter, that amount of movement in the threads is normal and what one would expect. They are not intended to be precision threads like you'd find on a Micrometer. From memory these are 3/4" in dia. Next time you have the opportunity, try a 3/4 Nut on a Bolt and feel how they fit.
 
Bottom line is, they are fine and in fact a stronger design than many others out there.

 

 
 
OK, that sounds plausible and is reassuring. I recently saw a Might Mini that actually had these lower arms, so maybe it's not really an issue...
 

Believe it or not but std threads have an engagement ie touching metal to metal once torqued up of only 30%. That space is to allow these to be done up easily and as mentioned above clearly this can be tighter in closer toleranced items. Trouble with this space is it allows water in and therefore corrosion and the pain to remove / adjust in the future. Use of Loctite 290 in this situation would be advised. 290 is applied after you’ve adjusted and locked down and it wickes in to the thread. Stopping it vibrating loose and also more importantly fills the gap so can’t corrode as no gap. Then just use hand tools when need to adjust to break the Loctite bond.

Good idea about the Loctite, will keep that in mind. Would you put the Loctite only on the locknuts or on/in the central tube as well?