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Rear Brake Improvements?


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#1 Tornado99

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Posted 21 January 2021 - 11:13 PM

I've recently fitted new rear shoes on my '88 Mini (owned for 6 months). I've followed guidance from several on-line vidoes and Haynes manual for adjusting the adjuster nuts and handbrake cable. Seemed fine for a few hundred miles. Then starting getting trouble holding car on uphill standing pull-aways. Made a second adjustment at the adjusters both sides and was ok again for a short while. Now its once again failing to hold car on uphills with as much force as I can get from the handbrake. 

 

Is this just an indication of shoes bedding in and I need to keep adjusting or something else wrong? I've already fit new wheel cylinders (one was weeping fluid when I got the car). So should not be fluid contamination. The brake cable seemed to be near max tension on the adjuster already. Do these tend to stretch and need replacing? 

 

Are there better shoe compounds I should consider (these were supplied by a local brit car specialist and didn't look like a familiar brand (Mintex, etc.).

 

 



#2 nicklouse

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Posted 21 January 2021 - 11:30 PM

Pop the drums off and have a look.  Never presume it is good.



#3 Cooperman

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Posted 21 January 2021 - 11:30 PM

The rear brake cables do stretch a bit, but adjustment is not normally needed very often.

The quadrants on the radius arms which change the cable direction by 90 degrees can get a bit corroded ad you might check that they are moving freely.

Poor quality rear linings won't help, although even poor ones should hold he car on a hill. After all, they can pass the MoT.

It is necessary to have to adjust the rear brake shoes quite regularly. About once every 1500 miles is normal, although more often if the linings are poor quality of if you drive hard. Make sure the adjuster screws move freely and oil/grease them regularly.

Rear brake performance can deteriorate if the mechanical linkages are worn, especially the clevis pins where the cable ends attach.

Just one more thing, it may be that the shoes are fitted in the wrong position. Check with the Workshop or Haynes Manuals which show the correct fitting positions. 



#4 Tornado99

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Posted 21 January 2021 - 11:57 PM

I knew it was a critical thing to get the shoes correctly oriented and the springs in the right way....as this is called out on several videos and in the Haynes. Will triple check them soon. In Steveston Motor Co.'s rear brake setup video: 

 

...they recommend to get the rear adjusters tight enough to make turning the wheels require a fair bit of force while off ground. I would think this then speeds up and bedding in the shoes make against the drums. 

 

When I made the cable adjustment, I found the threaded section on the cable end fitting was hitting/interfering with the handbrake bracket. I ultimately trimmed a short bit off the end of the thread to allow more tension to be put on the adjuster nut. This is why I was thinking the cable may have previously stretched some. 



#5 Tornado99

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 01:11 AM

Oh, one point I didn't mention...my car was missing the small set screws that bolt the drum to the hub....missing both on both sides. Didn't think much of it as the lug nuts secure the drum, correct? Perhaps the drums have shifted a wee bit off center without those set screws? 



#6 nicklouse

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 01:21 AM

Oh, one point I didn't mention...my car was missing the small set screws that bolt the drum to the hub....missing both on both sides. Didn't think much of it as the lug nuts secure the drum, correct? Perhaps the drums have shifted a wee bit off center without those set screws? 

I have never ever used them. But the drum needs to be held tight when adjusting. So depending on the studs you may need to fit a spacer to allow the nuts to clamp down with out the wheel fitted.



#7 Cooperman

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 10:09 AM

Like Nick, i never fit the small set screws. However, I do the final adjustment with the wheels fitted and tighten the adjusters until the wheel is locked-up and then back them off until the wheel can be turned by hand.

#8 MiniMadRacer

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 10:13 AM

I always fit them but I do use coppa slip before hand so they come out easy... there only purpose is if you lose a wheel you wont lose the drum too and have no brakes...remember the original mini had one bean can brake master cylinder not the split system.. the metros if I recall only had one screw.. snd they just need nipping up not gorillaing on



#9 MiNiKiN

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 10:42 AM

It could also be that the shoes don't match the curvature of the drum very well. This results in them having only a small contact pattern, hence they overheat and glaze in that area. 

These glazed areas then have a very low friction, which could explain your problem.



#10 Ethel

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 10:54 AM

I agree they're best adjusted with the wheel on, gives a better feel of the drag.

 

If you can pull more cable through than the adjuster allows it's worth looking if there's a cause. Frayed cable, worn pivots, corroded cable guides/ yolk.



#11 Revd

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 12:17 PM

How many clicks to pull the handbrake fully on when adjusted? Two or three is about right, much more and the leverage is soon lost. I adjusted my drums as per SMCO video. I did find on n/side the top shoe spring was on the bottom, the bottom on the top and the adjuster was dry as a biscuit- and it probably came out of Longbridge like that because it had only covered 6k miles.

Edited by Revd, 22 January 2021 - 12:18 PM.


#12 MiniMadRacer

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 12:28 PM

The hand brake levers where they engage on the shoes can wear too....back in the day I was "tight" so built them up with weld



#13 SolarB

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 01:37 PM

The handbrake on the Mini is one of the best handbrakes I've ever used and worked on. If it's not good then there is something amiss.



#14 sonscar

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 07:17 PM

I find that the rivet connecting the two levers inside the drum wears and causes a poor handbrake.Steve..

#15 Tornado99

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 07:27 PM

How many clicks to pull the handbrake fully on when adjusted? Two or three is about right, much more and the leverage is soon lost. I adjusted my drums as per SMCO video. I did find on n/side the top shoe spring was on the bottom, the bottom on the top and the adjuster was dry as a biscuit- and it probably came out of Longbridge like that because it had only covered 6k miles.

When I fit the new shoes/cylinders I set up the adjuster as per Steveston video....quite hard to turn with the wheel on. Then adjusted cable to achieve 2 or 3 clicks for no wheel movement by hand. After a 500 or so miles, needed re-adjustment at the drum adjusters and at the cable (3 clicks no longer holding car on hill). After that adjustment. all was good again until a few more hundred miles....now I'm back to no hill holding with maximum force on the handbrake...at least 4 clicks or more? 

 

Got new cables (one front, one rear) on the way. Will take hubs off again to check things over (ie for any new fluid leak or incorrect fitting)....fresh shoe springs also to be fit. 

While waiting for parts, I'll have another go with the hub adjusters...






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