51 replies to this topic

[sonscar]

Alternative method,if you have a spanner to fit the large nuts( size escapes me) use it to wiggle to and fro up and down.It should move a few mm to a lot of mm depending how worn it is.Spray it with penetrant.If the pedal is fully up in its correct position the bleed screw can be left alone.A mechanic may not be versed in Mini quirks.Steve..

[Crawfish]

Hi the whole area Nuts /levers has had a hell of a lot of WD40 and now Plus Gas sprayed on them over a week ,which should help.

 

I dont have two large spanners ,which was suggested earlier (one for each nut) that fit, but I have one large adjustable I can hopefully use to wiggle the top nut like you suggest.

I'll start with the screwdriver method and then I'll have a go at anything I can think of ,without being too heavy handed.

 

I'm hoping that the mechanic isn't versed in this mini quirk  ,but he's not a youngster and would have worked on many minis through his career.

 

I'll start on it ,this afternoon  and obviously let you know how it went 

 

Cheers

Edited by Crawfish, 20 February 2021 - 09:32 AM.

[Crawfish]

Ok after a hell of a lot of fiddling about prising with a bar and pushing with a screwdriver I managed to get the plunger out.

It kind of just slid out in the end ,the gap looked about the recommended 6.5mm after it was freed up

 

I wasn't too sure quite what to do ,so I tried pushing on the clutch pedal ,which went down and then went hard again afterwards.

 

I looked and its back to where I started ,the nuts flush against the wok again.

 

I thought I'll try and get it back out ,but its going to take a long time ,so I thought I'd come back here first as it might mean the diagnosis is apparent now and dont want to waste another hour fiddling about with it and chopping it up even more.

 

Cheers all 

[Norris73]

Loosen the bleed screw on the slave cylinder, then work the plunger back out, otherwise you are working against the hydraulic pressure.

When you had the plunger freed off earlier were you able to push it in and out of the wok (while the slave cylinder bleed screw was open?). Ideally if you could remove the split pin and clevis pin from the top of the clutch arm, then you would be able to confirm how free the clutch plunger is (without it being connected to the slave cylinder).

 

Im thinking that the slave cylinder is sticking and not returning properly, for the price of a verto slave cylinder and the flexi rubber hose I would be changing these to rule them out before I went delving into replacing clutch plates etc.

 

If your location is correct in your profile you are only like 25 minutes up the road from me. If lockdown ends and allows, I am more than happy to pop round and take a look at this for you and we can fit a new slave cylinder and flexi pipe if you can source the bits.

 

 

[Crawfish]

Loosen the bleed screw on the slave cylinder, then work the plunger back out, otherwise you are working against the hydraulic pressure.

When you had the plunger freed off earlier were you able to push it in and out of the wok (while the slave cylinder bleed screw was open?). Ideally if you could remove the split pin and clevis pin from the top of the clutch arm, then you would be able to confirm how free the clutch plunger is (without it being connected to the slave cylinder).

 

Im thinking that the slave cylinder is sticking and not returning properly, for the price of a verto slave cylinder and the flexi rubber hose I would be changing these to rule them out before I went delving into replacing clutch plates etc.

 

If your location is correct in your profile you are only like 25 minutes up the road from me. If lockdown ends and allows, I am more than happy to pop round and take a look at this for you and we can fit a new slave cylinder and flexi pipe if you can source the bits.

Hey there,

I was kind of thinking that it was probably all over and I was going to have to change the entire clutch no matter what.

 

It’s good to hear that there still might be an option ,thats a lot cheaper and less hassle 

I’ve managed to free up the plunger again (see new picture)

 

I wouldn’t  be able to remove the split pin and clevis pin myself ,its all on the opposite side and I would make a mess of it.

 

Even with the bleed screw open ,nothing is moving freely at all ,I've just  tried moving both the plunger going into the slave cylinder which moved around half a centimetre max and also moving the two nuts with the plunger that goes into the wok which I couldn’t budge using my hand its very tight

 

My location is correct and your idea is extremely generous - I would of course reimburse you petrol ,pay for the parts and no doubt give you a “drink” for it.

End of lockdown is maybe not so close unfortunately, but  I could always get the mechanic I mentioned to fit it ,he may not like the idea of me dismissing his diagnosis, but I have told him that I am getting advice online.

Attached Files

•  CLutch Open.JPG   62.78K   1 downloads

[Crawfish]

Anybody else have anything to say what they think the problem is?

 

Cheers

[Norris73]

I have replied to your PM.

 

Looks better in the picture, with the clutch plunger released.

 

Have a go at removing the split pin and clevis pin at the top of the clutch arm. Reach around and straighten the split pin, remover the pin with pliers and then extract the clevis pin. All these parts are available easily and cheap (clutch arm top clevis pin £1.37 on minispares and split pin is pennies and needs to be replaced by mechanic when refiiting). Depending on the wear you find on the clevis pin and push rod you may choose to change these anyway when replacing slave cylinder (clutch push rod is under £5)

 

If you get the clutch arm free from the slave cylinder you will then be able to prove if the plunger is free and can be moved in and out of the clutch wok with little resistance. If it is free then you can say to you mechanic with confidence, to replace the clutch slave and hose + bleed clutch.

 

Offer still open for when possible to look at this for you, if your mechanic is unable to. Looks like May at the moment.

 

[Crawfish]

Hi there,

Many thanks for your input and advice.

I've managed to remove the clevis pin and clutch arm/nuts and plunger are not moving using my hand ,it all feels pretty stuck ,not sure if this means I have a broken clutch or not or there's anything else I can do to try and help this along (see attached pic)

 

Cheers

Attached Files

•  Clevis Pin Removed.JPG   56.72K   0 downloads

[sonscar]

You will not be able to push the nuts in by hand as that would be operating the clutch,Steve..

[Crawfish]

You will not be able to push the nuts in by hand as that would be operating the clutch,Steve..

Hi Steve, Ok ,So what do I need to do now to move the lever to move the nuts /plunger?

[Norris73]

You should still see or have some/a little movement, a couple mm, as the slack is taken up between the release bearing and the clutch thrust sleeve.

 

You should be able to wiggle/rock the plunger a few mm, before it become stiff as the release bearing makes contact with the clutch thrust sleeve (which in turns acts on the fingers of the pressure plate). Hopefully you can feel the clutch plunger has a tiny amount of movement and isn’t totally solid. The fact you were able to free off the plunger and then press the pedal again earlier in this thread, which got the plunger stuck pressed in suggests the plunger is sufficently free to allow the clutch to operate. If this is the case I would go ahead and change the clutch slave and flexi hose, before going any further in removing the wok to replace clutch components.

 

This exploded diagram might help you visualise the components that are inside the clutch wok that you cant see

 

http://www.minispare...~ON.aspx?1~3~30

 

Inside the wok the clutch components look as in the attached image, the plunger has a release bearing attached to it which is pressed against the thrust sleeve which operates the clutch pressure plate fingers as you press the pedal.

 

I have sent you a PM, but my thinking is its likely that either the rubber flexi hose or the slave cylinder have failed internally, creating a one way valve kind of effect - ie you press the pedal and hydraulic fluid makes it through and the clutch plunger will push in, however the clutch arm/plunger does not return as the fluid is stuck.

 

While waiting for parts to arrive re attach the clutch rod to the plunger with the clevis pin (don’t refit the split pin we are only testing its not going to fall out for a test), gently feel the pedal ie press it 1/2inch just barely, check the clutch plunger - did it return? Press the pedal again - this time an inch or so - did it return, keep building up the amount you are pressing each time and checking if the plunger returned, this action may help? worth a shot while waiting for slave cylinder,, hose  and sealing washers to arrive. I often find with things like this its helpful to prop my phone in the engine bay and set it to record a video, after carrying out this test, watch back the video and you can see exactly what was going on.

Attached Files

•  IMG_20180401_125804.jpg   47K   0 downloads

Edited by Norris73, 23 February 2021 - 07:13 PM.

[Crawfish]

Hey Norris73

thanks for posting a lot of info,I guess what I need to know is what to change and I will follow your advice and get the slave /flexi hose done first, if that doesn't work ,that means its the clutch.

 

There is pretty much no movement on any of the parts mentioned ,I've shot a short video to show this, but had to do it left handed ,so i didnt get in the way of the light, this will enable you to see how much movement there is.

 

I've never posted video to here before, so no idea if it will work!

 

 

Attached Files

•  Clutch.mov   1.81MB   10 downloads

[Crawfish]

The video posted looks like it worked ,thanks for the PM with extra details ,I will go through the procedure you mentioned above and use my phone to record it, great advice

 

Many thanks 

[Crawfish]

You should still see or have some/a little movement, a couple mm, as the slack is taken up between the release bearing and the clutch thrust sleeve.

 

You should be able to wiggle/rock the plunger a few mm, before it become stiff as the release bearing makes contact with the clutch thrust sleeve (which in turns acts on the fingers of the pressure plate). Hopefully you can feel the clutch plunger has a tiny amount of movement and isn’t totally solid. The fact you were able to free off the plunger and then press the pedal again earlier in this thread, which got the plunger stuck pressed in suggests the plunger is sufficently free to allow the clutch to operate. If this is the case I would go ahead and change the clutch slave and flexi hose, before going any further in removing the wok to replace clutch components.

 

This exploded diagram might help you visualise the components that are inside the clutch wok that you cant see

 

http://www.minispare...~ON.aspx?1~3~30

 

Inside the wok the clutch components look as in the attached image, the plunger has a release bearing attached to it which is pressed against the thrust sleeve which operates the clutch pressure plate fingers as you press the pedal.

 

I have sent you a PM, but my thinking is its likely that either the rubber flexi hose or the slave cylinder have failed internally, creating a one way valve kind of effect - ie you press the pedal and hydraulic fluid makes it through and the clutch plunger will push in, however the clutch arm/plunger does not return as the fluid is stuck.

 

While waiting for parts to arrive re attach the clutch rod to the plunger with the clevis pin (don’t refit the split pin we are only testing its not going to fall out for a test), gently feel the pedal ie press it 1/2inch just barely, check the clutch plunger - did it return? Press the pedal again - this time an inch or so - did it return, keep building up the amount you are pressing each time and checking if the plunger returned, this action may help? worth a shot while waiting for slave cylinder,, hose  and sealing washers to arrive. I often find with things like this its helpful to prop my phone in the engine bay and set it to record a video, after carrying out this test, watch back the video and you can see exactly what was going on.

Hi,

Today I ordered the extra parts for the slave cylinder,so they are arriving tomorrow.

In the meantime ,I decided to follow your directions,I wasn't really sure why I was doing it ,but did as you said as I thought it couldn't hurt.

 

I put the clevis pin back in ,reconnected the plunger to the slave cylinder, so everything was connected.

 

I tried pushing on the clutch pedal half inch ,which moved the plunger in but didn't return back ,I then pushed the pedal an inch ,plunger went in more ,still didnt return.

 

I then took a screwdriver to manually push the nuts back out and they seemed to go further leaving a bigger gap (more than before) the plunger went further into the slave cylinder than before. (see photo)

 

I then started the process again ,it may be my imagination ,but the clutch pedal seemed to spring back up after I pushed it down ,whereas before it was sort of just pushing down and staying down.

 

I soon realised that incredibly the clutch was working and could even see it on the video that I took, to top it all off the car is driving again.

 

As you can imagine I'm pretty happy about it all :) Not really sure how its now "fixed" though

Attached Files

•  Clutch wider gap.JPG   51.4K   5 downloads

[Crawfish]

Video of clutch working 

 

 

Attached Files

•  Clutch Working.mov   550.43K   11 downloads