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Flywheel Keystay Has Broke? How?!


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#16 gaspen

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Posted 03 October 2021 - 07:56 PM

 

Put the the flywheel on in the correct position*. See the picture's of Nick.

You will need a new locktab of course. And maybe a new keyway also.

112ftlb is correct Torque Settings (reformatted) - Problems, Questions and Technical - The Mini Forum

After torqued the bolt hammer the locktab to the keyway AND to the bolt also ! I used to hammer the locktabs to the whole flat of the bolts/nuts.

* Is it possible that the C-ring behind the flywheel fallen off while he put on the flywheel ?

Okay, I think I see what I did wrong from this. I hammered the lock tab only to the bolt and not the Keystay will order both new and make sure I do it correctly. It's annoying as today was the first day I got it out of the estate since I bought it! Oh well, could of been a lot worse.

It's a pre verto clutch so doesn't have the C-ring.

 

 

That C-ring is holds the primary gear on the crank and it is behind the flywheel. You have to install it while the 1 & 4 cylinder  at TDC. You will see it if the flywheel removed.



#17 GraemeC

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Posted 03 October 2021 - 08:36 PM

Assuming the car still has wheels on and is on the ground, put it in 4th, handbrake firmly on and chock the front wheels. That might give the crank enough resistance to get the bolt loose.



#18 TheJack

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Posted 03 October 2021 - 08:40 PM

That C-ring is holds the primary gear on the crank and it is behind the flywheel. You have to install it while the 1 & 4 cylinder at TDC. You will see it if the flywheel removed.


I didn't think the pre-verto has this? Wasn't there where I removed the old clutch first time round? Thought it was verto only?

#19 nicklouse

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Posted 03 October 2021 - 08:52 PM

 

That C-ring is holds the primary gear on the crank and it is behind the flywheel. You have to install it while the 1 & 4 cylinder at TDC. You will see it if the flywheel removed.

I didn't think the pre-verto has this? Wasn't there where I removed the old clutch first time round? Thought it was verto only?

 

Bigger issue on the pre Verto.

 

usfsTen.jpg



#20 TheJack

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Posted 03 October 2021 - 08:56 PM

Bigger issue on the pre Verto.

usfsTen.jpg

Edited this

Sorry tell a lie, I remember now 🤦🏻 yes that was in place and seated correctly when I did it.

Edited by TheJack, 03 October 2021 - 09:01 PM.


#21 GraemeC

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Posted 03 October 2021 - 09:02 PM

If the c-clip isn’t there you have a problem - the primary gear will be moving around all over the place.

It is on ALL cranks, irrespective of clutch/flywheel type (well apart from fancy aftermarket cranks).



#22 TheJack

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Posted 03 October 2021 - 09:15 PM

If the c-clip isn’t there you have a problem - the primary gear will be moving around all over the place.
It is on ALL cranks, irrespective of clutch/flywheel type (well apart from fancy aftermarket cranks).


My bad, I do remember after going back through some pics. I'm just being stupid again! Just want it sorted as it's stressing me out.

#23 panky

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 09:49 AM

I use an old mains shell to lock the flywheel. With the starter motor off the edges of the shell fit nicely into the teeth on the flywheel and will lock against the starter motor hole.



#24 GraemeC

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 11:29 AM

Locking the flywheel doesn't help if the flywheel is free to spin on the crank.



#25 mini13

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 12:26 PM

^^^ this

 

i've pulled the dizzy and dizzy drive, and slide a hammer shaft in there to lock the crank.



#26 tiwariishu887

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 01:31 PM

I followed a video which said 112 ftlb (152nm) for the bolt and that was it. Do I need to do something to make sure the flywheel goes further back? uc browser turbo jio login

Edited by tiwariishu887, 05 October 2021 - 01:07 PM.


#27 Spider

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 06:57 PM

If the flywheel is loose from the crank and you now can't get the bolt undone, remove the rocker cover and see which of the cylinders has closed valve. Remove the Spark Plug from that cylinder and see if the Piston is at least some way down the bore and feed some rope in to the cylinder - be sure to put a decent knot in the loose end so it doesn't fall in ! Then turn the crank until the piston starts to take up on the rope, check that the valves are still closed, if so, keep going until you've undone the bolt. You may have to change cylinders with the rope as you need to catch one on the compression stroke with the valves shut so you don't bend them.

 

The official Torque figure for the Bolt is 112 - 115 ft/lb. I think I've only ever done it to that figure 2 or 3 times when I first started tinkering with these engines. I've almost always found that figure too low and many engines that had been untouched since leaving the factory, upon going to undo this bolt, I have found them not tight at all and some could even be undone with the fingers. On removing the flywheel on some of these, there's been evidence of fretting between the crank and flywheel. Reading these pages, this it seems to me just about every Verto type clutch set up suffers also from this, only worse.

Where I'm going with this is that my own findings and belief is that Torque figure of 112 - 115 ft/lb is too low and the Locktab here (even the originals) don't help either, they just squash up from torsional vibration causing a slackening in the Tension here. It is poor practice I must admit, I don't use a Torque Wrench on this Bolt and I use Loctite on the threads, but back tracking a bit here, I first lap the flywheels to the crank every time I fit them. Usually after the first time a crank and flywheel are mated, I find just 1 - 2 - 3 turns of the flywheel is well enough. I then clean the mating faces with thinners, I believe they need to be very clean, then lightly lube the taper with 3 in 1 Oil, fit the Flywheel & Lockplate, Loctite on the threads on the Bolt and I then tighten the Bolt as Tight as I can get it, I'd estimate in the order of 200 ft / lb. I've never had an issue, not even come close, with breaking bolts, stripping or pulling threads ever from doing them this tight. The 3 in 1 Oil being so light, firstly allows the tapers to slide and really pull down hard on each other and then under the extreme pressure generated here, the Oil Film breaks down, so I wouldn't ever use anything heavier than 3 in 1. I've found on removing the Flywheels when fitted this way, they are still on tight and never had any sign of fretting. If they fret, as many of us have seen on the forum, they 'weld' together and become very hard to separate, often doing damage to the tapers, some even needing a replacement Crank as a result.

Others here may disagree with this method and what I've said about the Torque Figure on the Bolt and that's fair enough, I'm only passing on my experience here. My experience of finding loose Flywheel Bolts hasn't been just on performance engines but even the standard 998 driven by Grandma.



#28 TheJack

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 07:41 PM

So I've got the bolt out, got a screwdriver to hold the crank at the flywheel so it wouldn't spin and unwound the bolt.

The flywheel has had damage to it from the movement of the Keystay so I've order another flywheel and will follow Spiders advice on this. Read elsewhere about tightening it to 200nm or so.

#29 gaspen

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 09:58 AM

So I've got the bolt out, got a screwdriver to hold the crank at the flywheel so it wouldn't spin and unwound the bolt.

The flywheel has had damage to it from the movement of the Keystay so I've order another flywheel and will follow Spiders advice on this. Read elsewhere about tightening it to 200nm or so.

 

What about the crank ? Is it OK ?



#30 TheJack

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:13 PM


So I've got the bolt out, got a screwdriver to hold the crank at the flywheel so it wouldn't spin and unwound the bolt.

The flywheel has had damage to it from the movement of the Keystay so I've order another flywheel and will follow Spiders advice on this. Read elsewhere about tightening it to 200nm or so.


What about the crank ? Is it OK ?

Yes crank is undamaged. Ive got lucky and I stopped at the right time to only break the Keystay.




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