6 replies to this topic

[MiniMadMan1996]

So roughly 5 years ago I had 2 half floors fitted to my mini, unfortunately the guy who done it didnt brace the shell at all, his "philosophy" was having the car on axle stands on one side the shell wouldn't warp/twist/change shape etc. I always thought it was a bit dodgy but unfortunately by the time he had sent me some pictures the old floor had been cut out.

Fast forward about a year and I took it off the road to have a lot of major bodywork done, by a proper place this time. Once the work was done we were discussing what problems etc there was and they said the shell had definitely twisted to due the floors being done. but they still managed to get everything to fit ok, doors in the openings were good etc.

Now fast forward to this year. now I've never really been happy with the floors, for a start they aren't flat or level in any aspect... So trying to do anything that requires a datum is just a pain! Making seat frames for bucket seats, pedal box frame for a floor mounted one, had to put various thickness packers under it to make up for the bacon level of flatness my floors are!

I've been through 2 fibreglass front ends because I couldn't get them to fit properly, so I decided to ditch those and just get a steel front end, and again, problems fitting. So I decided to get some dimensions off a completely untouched shell. From the heel board to the edge of the A panel I measured 49 5/8", and mine measured up almost exact to this. But if I measured from the heel board to the front of the subframe (I clamped a bar across the front of it), the drivers side came out at 79 3/4", and the passenger side was 80 1/4". So the subframe is 1/2" out of ******* to the shell, and it's also sitting higher on the passenger side, I did replace the bulkhead crossmember but that can only go in one place due to various fixing points you can use (pedal box fixings, damper mounts). Now this all tallys up with the front end not fitting properly because when I clamped the passenger wing to the A panel, I could get it clamped at the top, but there was a 1/2" gap at the bottom, and there was literally no way it pulling it together without unbolting the front panel.

So my main question is, would my best plan of action be to just brace the shell up as is, remove the entire floor and toe board, pull the shell straight, then fit a brand new floor and toe board to get the shell straight again. Whats the most annoying thing is the shell is actually solid, no rust at all, it just isnt straight, or something isnt straight somewhere on the shell...

 

 

[Homersimpson]

So roughly 5 years ago I had 2 half floors fitted to my mini, unfortunately the guy who done it didnt brace the shell at all, his "philosophy" was having the car on axle stands on one side the shell wouldn't warp/twist/change shape etc. I always thought it was a bit dodgy but unfortunately by the time he had sent me some pictures the old floor had been cut out.

Fast forward about a year and I took it off the road to have a lot of major bodywork done, by a proper place this time. Once the work was done we were discussing what problems etc there was and they said the shell had definitely twisted to due the floors being done. but they still managed to get everything to fit ok, doors in the openings were good etc.

Now fast forward to this year. now I've never really been happy with the floors, for a start they aren't flat or level in any aspect... So trying to do anything that requires a datum is just a pain! Making seat frames for bucket seats, pedal box frame for a floor mounted one, had to put various thickness packers under it to make up for the bacon level of flatness my floors are!

I've been through 2 fibreglass front ends because I couldn't get them to fit properly, so I decided to ditch those and just get a steel front end, and again, problems fitting. So I decided to get some dimensions off a completely untouched shell. From the heel board to the edge of the A panel I measured 49 5/8", and mine measured up almost exact to this. But if I measured from the heel board to the front of the subframe (I clamped a bar across the front of it), the drivers side came out at 79 3/4", and the passenger side was 80 1/4". So the subframe is 1/2" out of ******* to the shell, and it's also sitting higher on the passenger side, I did replace the bulkhead crossmember but that can only go in one place due to various fixing points you can use (pedal box fixings, damper mounts). Now this all tallys up with the front end not fitting properly because when I clamped the passenger wing to the A panel, I could get it clamped at the top, but there was a 1/2" gap at the bottom, and there was literally no way it pulling it together without unbolting the front panel.

So my main question is, would my best plan of action be to just brace the shell up as is, remove the entire floor and toe board, pull the shell straight, then fit a brand new floor and toe board to get the shell straight again. Whats the most annoying thing is the shell is actually solid, no rust at all, it just isnt straight, or something isnt straight somewhere on the shell...

One thing to consider is that the tollerances on cars of this age are fairly lapse so its unlikely that all measurements would be exactly correct and the front end being hard to line up isn't necessarily a indication of things having moved, it could just be production tollerances.

 

When the floors were replaced if things had moved that much I would have expected there to be issues with doors not fitting/closing (although the person who did the work might have messed around with them to hide it to some extent).

 

If you do think things have moved then the best way to get it straight is to put in on a jig, then remove the panels that are wrong and rebuild from there. 

 

If you have replaced the main cross member then that is the more likely culprit for the front subframe being out as this is a more critical mounting position than the floor, are you sure the subframe isn't bent as a car that has had a lot of work might have more than one thing wrong with it causing a cumulative error.

 

What age is the car as it might be better to start with a new shell if its that bad or sell it to someone who is less concerned (assuming it drives ok and is safe) and buy another one.

Edited by Homersimpson, 07 November 2021 - 11:17 AM.

[Homersimpson]

I found this website which has some alignment diagrams that might help:

 

http://www.turbomini...p=vt&tid=587196

 

[MiniMadMan1996]

 

So roughly 5 years ago I had 2 half floors fitted to my mini, unfortunately the guy who done it didnt brace the shell at all, his "philosophy" was having the car on axle stands on one side the shell wouldn't warp/twist/change shape etc. I always thought it was a bit dodgy but unfortunately by the time he had sent me some pictures the old floor had been cut out.

Fast forward about a year and I took it off the road to have a lot of major bodywork done, by a proper place this time. Once the work was done we were discussing what problems etc there was and they said the shell had definitely twisted to due the floors being done. but they still managed to get everything to fit ok, doors in the openings were good etc.

Now fast forward to this year. now I've never really been happy with the floors, for a start they aren't flat or level in any aspect... So trying to do anything that requires a datum is just a pain! Making seat frames for bucket seats, pedal box frame for a floor mounted one, had to put various thickness packers under it to make up for the bacon level of flatness my floors are!

I've been through 2 fibreglass front ends because I couldn't get them to fit properly, so I decided to ditch those and just get a steel front end, and again, problems fitting. So I decided to get some dimensions off a completely untouched shell. From the heel board to the edge of the A panel I measured 49 5/8", and mine measured up almost exact to this. But if I measured from the heel board to the front of the subframe (I clamped a bar across the front of it), the drivers side came out at 79 3/4", and the passenger side was 80 1/4". So the subframe is 1/2" out of ******* to the shell, and it's also sitting higher on the passenger side, I did replace the bulkhead crossmember but that can only go in one place due to various fixing points you can use (pedal box fixings, damper mounts). Now this all tallys up with the front end not fitting properly because when I clamped the passenger wing to the A panel, I could get it clamped at the top, but there was a 1/2" gap at the bottom, and there was literally no way it pulling it together without unbolting the front panel.

So my main question is, would my best plan of action be to just brace the shell up as is, remove the entire floor and toe board, pull the shell straight, then fit a brand new floor and toe board to get the shell straight again. Whats the most annoying thing is the shell is actually solid, no rust at all, it just isnt straight, or something isnt straight somewhere on the shell...

One thing to consider is that the tollerances on cars of this age are fairly lapse so its unlikely that all measurements would be exactly correct and the front end being hard to line up isn't necessarily a indication of things having moved, it could just be production tollerances.

 

When the floors were replaced if things had moved that much I would have expected there to be issues with doors not fitting/closing (although the person who did the work might have messed around with them to hide it to some extent).

 

If you do think things have moved then the best way to get it straight is to put in on a jig, then remove the panels that are wrong and rebuild from there. 

 

If you have replaced the main cross member then that is the more likely culprit for the front subframe being out as this is a more critical mounting position than the floor, are you sure the subframe isn't bent as a car that has had a lot of work might have more than one thing wrong with it causing a cumulative error.

 

What age is the car as it might be better to start with a new shell if its that bad or sell it to someone who is less concerned (assuming it drives ok and is safe) and buy another one.

 

When it had the second lot of work done it had complete new A posts etc, so you could technically make it fit even if the shell is out. I'm planning on sending it to rightline in sittingbourne if they can do it, if they can't this is why I wanted to have my own plan as well. It's just annoying I've got this far and only just discovered whats wrong. I was talking with nick as swiftune and he definitely said the shell is out and needs to be jigged

[MiniMadMan1996]

In total it's had complete doorstep and A post panel, inner A post, A panels, front windscreen panel, complete inner wings (cut off at cross member), bulkhead cross member, complete boot floor, rear quarters, rear panel to bottom of rear screen, valance, tubbed arches, heel board, and of course half floors. The rear end of the car is fine as far as I can tell, there just seems to be something amiss at the front end and my only solution would be to just remove the floor and toe board and start again, I'd possibly think the A post might need unstitching to get that corner of the car to pull in as well, but bodywork is like a black art to me!

[Homersimpson]

In total it's had complete doorstep and A post panel, inner A post, A panels, front windscreen panel, complete inner wings (cut off at cross member), bulkhead cross member, complete boot floor, rear quarters, rear panel to bottom of rear screen, valance, tubbed arches, heel board, and of course half floors. The rear end of the car is fine as far as I can tell, there just seems to be something amiss at the front end and my only solution would be to just remove the floor and toe board and start again, I'd possibly think the A post might need unstitching to get that corner of the car to pull in as well, but bodywork is like a black art to me!

It might be the floor but with the way the subframe mounts the crossmember in the engine bay would be my first port of call if you have changed it. 

 

The floors and toebar are fairly thin and can move but the crossmember is a solid piece and so if its been welded in the wrong place the bolts to the toeboard could pull this up to match (especially if the mounts are solid rather than rubber).

 

If you look at the tower bolts in the front crossmember (assuming its a post 76 rubber mounted car) do they look the same distance from the bulkhead and front of the crossmember in the engine bay?

 

Unfortunatly it sounds like you might have a big job on your hands if things are in the wrong place because replacing panels that have previously been replaced tends to be more time consuming than removing factory panels.

 

Do you have any photos of the work done, subframe mounts etc. that might give an indication of where the fault lies?

[sonscar]

Look at it this way,as homersimpson said tolerance were lax when new.In its life the sills rotted,the heelboard rotted the inner wings etc rotted etc etc.The car was driven in this state with four mates crammed in etc.
Then you decide to restore it,carefully bracing all the misalignment and twists into place and fixing it in place with new panels with heat distortion and fettling included.Result?it may or may not be straight.
I am not saying this applies in your case but it has become fashionable to discredit others work.
Your car is very probably OK,Steve..