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Cam Timing With Mult-Keyed Crank Spocket - How?


Best Answer GraemeC , 29 December 2021 - 04:18 PM

Too late for this time, but for future.....

I tend to refit the flywheel as this serves two purposes - firstly it makes a handy way of turning the engine over and secondly rig up a pointer and make a corresponding mark at TDC - that way you always have a reference for TDC without having to go through the motions of finding it again, because of the size/diameter of the flywheel it is very repeatable too.

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#1 floormanager

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Posted 28 December 2021 - 02:05 PM

Hi,

Need some help.  I've bought a cam wheel set with a multi-keyed crank sprocket.

Attached File  Capture.JPG   31.18K   8 downloads

 

I've previously timed with a offset woodruff key (which makes sense to me).   I've spent the morning timing it by moving to different keyways on the crank sprocket but I've come to the conclusion, this a nonsense as if you put the crank to TDC every time, you're not altering the timing!  I've now totally confused myself and wondering if anyone has done one of these can can describe the process?

Here's the instructions I got with the timing set

Attached File  20211228_133930.jpg   47.79K   12 downloads

Thanks

Paul



#2 sonscar

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Posted 28 December 2021 - 02:18 PM

You put the crank to TDC but move the sprocket which moves the cam.Steve..

#3 floormanager

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Posted 28 December 2021 - 02:48 PM

You put the crank to TDC but move the sprocket which moves the cam.Steve..

But that means you can just move the chain round and do not need the multikeyway sprocket.  The instructions say the cam wheel needs to have the dot through the centre of the crank and the camshaft.



#4 GraemeC

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Posted 28 December 2021 - 02:58 PM

Yes you move the chain round to suit the new crank sprocket position, but it is by a tooth and a bit, giving intermediate positions

They’re actually a really good system as it saves having a handful of different offset keys to having to wait for one to be delivered once you know what you need.

Edited by GraemeC, 28 December 2021 - 03:04 PM.


#5 floormanager

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Posted 28 December 2021 - 03:22 PM

Yes you move the chain round to suit the new crank sprocket position, but it is by a tooth and a bit, giving intermediate positions

They’re actually a really good system as it saves having a handful of different offset keys to having to wait for one to be delivered once you know what you need.

I think they look great but struggling to get my head around what I've spent the morning doing and not yet having timed the cam correctly!  If I keep setting the crank at TDC and move the crank sprocket to the next keyway, then align the camshaft to the same position with the dot through the crank and cam centres, the timing has not changed!  All I've effectively done is rotate the crank sprocket one notch on the crank.  The cam has not moved, the chain has moved a tooth, so the cam has not rotated.  I get the offset key and vernier wheels as you keep the crank at TDC and rotate the cam.   The instructions say keep the dot on the cam in line with the crank and cam centres, so the crank has to rotate surely?

Paul



#6 Ethel

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Posted 28 December 2021 - 03:33 PM

Without looking I'll guess it works the same as an offset key, only the offset is built in to the key slots. One key way will give more offset than the other and flipping the sprocket over will change the offset from advanced to retarded. I'd expect multiple alignment dots that are likely to be marked with the offset you get when they are aligned with the crank pulley dot.



#7 Spider

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Posted 28 December 2021 - 05:49 PM

With the Crank Sprocket, pick out the middle of all the Keyways. Get and old Sprocket, put it on top of the new one, line up the Keyway in the old with the one on the new you've just picked out. Get a felt tip marker and put a Dot on the new where the Dot is on the old. It doesn't need to be spot on, just within 1/2 a tooth is fine.

Do the same with your Cam Sprocket, only as that has 2 slots, just pick out one, put a mark next to that, the using that keyway, do the same as above.

 

Then when changing, the sets I've used, the Crank Sprocket Keyways were 20 apart. So when changing, pick out the new Keyway you'll be trying, rub off the previous mark and run through that procedure again. If I recall right, from that middle keyway on the Crank, those in an anti-clock from that advance and those in a clockwise direction, advance. I've not come across the Cam Sprocket with 2 Keyways, but I'm guessing they are 10 apart.

 

There's a bit of trial and error with them.

 

I've tried these, the vernier, slotted type and off set keys, my personal preference is the latter. I found these with the multi-keyways painful, I hope your experience is different.

 

,,,,,,,,, as it saves having a handful of different offset keys to having to wait for one to be delivered once you know what you need.

 

Ages ago, I bought 2, 4, 6 and 8 degree off set keys, which worked out a similar cost to the adjustable types. Most of what I build these days, within 1 degree is good enough and I can do that with these 4 keys. Having them on hand means no waiting and once fitted, if further adjustment is needed, I have that next key.

Then between builds, what ever I've used, I put on the next order.
 



#8 floormanager

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Posted 28 December 2021 - 05:54 PM

Have to say, the offset keys are easypeasy.  These gears are a PITA!!

Had too many beers now but will try again tomorrow.  I'm pretty close to re-fitting the original gears and getting an offset keyway!!



#9 floormanager

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Posted 29 December 2021 - 03:28 PM

Right done it.  I think I went through every combination.  Next time, two dtis would be a great help.  Fed up keep changing from TDC to cam opening.

Thanks for all your help and advice.

Paul



#10 GraemeC

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Posted 29 December 2021 - 04:18 PM   Best Answer

Too late for this time, but for future.....

I tend to refit the flywheel as this serves two purposes - firstly it makes a handy way of turning the engine over and secondly rig up a pointer and make a corresponding mark at TDC - that way you always have a reference for TDC without having to go through the motions of finding it again, because of the size/diameter of the flywheel it is very repeatable too.



#11 Spider

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Posted 29 December 2021 - 05:40 PM

Too late for this time, but for future.....

I tend to refit the flywheel as this serves two purposes - firstly it makes a handy way of turning the engine over and secondly rig up a pointer and make a corresponding mark at TDC - that way you always have a reference for TDC without having to go through the motions of finding it again, because of the size/diameter of the flywheel it is very repeatable too.

 

I kinda do similar, but I have a degree wheel that fits on the nose of the crank, like a damper would.. I have a Piston Stop to find TDC, then adjust the degree wheel to also show TDC, lock that off, then it can be removed and refitted and we still have it clocked in to TDC. I then also use it to measure Cam Angles.
 



#12 floormanager

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Posted 29 December 2021 - 06:13 PM

Too late for this time, but for future.....

I tend to refit the flywheel as this serves two purposes - firstly it makes a handy way of turning the engine over and secondly rig up a pointer and make a corresponding mark at TDC - that way you always have a reference for TDC without having to go through the motions of finding it again, because of the size/diameter of the flywheel it is very repeatable too.

Damn - top tip.  I should have thought of this.  Could have saved me a lot of frustration.  The trouble is, being of an certain age, I'll forget the next time I need to do it and repeat the mistakes I made this time!



#13 floormanager

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Posted 29 December 2021 - 06:16 PM

Ahh just remembered.  Someone has lightened my flywheel in the past and there are no timing marks.  Feel better now!






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