40 replies to this topic

[sam138]

I’ve just installed my new oil pump and cam today and wanted to ensure the installation is correct as it’s my first time.

Is it correct to have the half moon gap at the top of the oil pump to engine block as per pic attached ? Does this allow oil through ?


With the camshaft installed should the timing end of the cam stick out a bit as per pic as the cam is fully slotted into the oil pump ?

The cam is a minispares Evo 1 with a minispares turbo oil pump which will be fitted to my supercharger mini.


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Edited by sam138, 29 January 2022 - 10:41 PM.

[Spider]

Yes, your Oil Pump fitted orientation is correct and also the Cam does normally protrude out the front of the block as you are seeing.

When the front Engine Plate is fitted, that's about 3/16" thick, + the gasket, that'll actually leave the thrust face of the cam slightly lower than the face of the Engine Plate. There's then the Cam Thrust Plate that's fitted over the Cam and it's only this that the Cam should thrust against when the Engine's running.

[Earwax]

Hi sam138

 

If this is your first time engine building , and not just installing an oil pump, keep asking questions. Things like priming the oil pump, cam thrust plate the correct side, timing sprocket flat installation - are details that make a difference - ignore this drivel if it sounds like i am trying to teach you how to suck eggs>>>>>

[sam138]

Many thanks for your replies, I’ve seen a gap above the oil pump is that correct as per picture the half moon kind of shape which goes through to the block ?

Also is the turbo oil pump best for a supercharger or should I just run standard? I’ve brought the Minispares GLP110MS.

How have people dealt with 2 bolt oil pump but mine has 4 holes ? Do I need to block the other holes ?

Edited by sam138, 30 January 2022 - 08:50 AM.

[Spider]

Many thanks for your replies, I’ve seen a gap above the oil pump is that correct as per picture the half moon kind of shape which goes through to the block ?

Also is the turbo oil pump best for a supercharger or should I just run standard? I’ve brought the Minispares GLP110MS.

How have people dealt with 2 bolt oil pump but mine has 4 holes ? Do I need to block the other holes ?

 

The Oil Pump will only go on one way, but if in doubt, check the ports on the pump to the posts in the block that the big goes to big and small to small.

If your Supercharger needs it's own Oil Feed, then yes, this would be the pump to use. If it does not need an oil feed, then run a standard pump. Running a pump that has more capacity than what it needed not only saps power from the engine, it's heats the oil in a big way and for no reason.

The earlier oil pumps were a 4 bolt fixing, but they went to a 2 bolt fixing around 1978-ish. 2 Bolts are fine, just be sure that the bolts are not too long and bottoming out in the holes before getting tight on the pump.

[sam138]

The minispares website suggest the oil pump is comparable to the latest rover item ?

Turbo oil pump, highest flow available. 9 Gallons per minute as against approx 6 GPM. This pump is a late model slot drive and will fit into any 1275cc engine and exactly the same as the second generation of pump as sold by Unipart/Rover.


I’ll be running a suck through Eaton m45 set up with around 120-130bhp so thought an upgraded pump would be best.

Edited by sam138, 30 January 2022 - 12:26 PM.

[Spider]

The minispares website suggest the oil pump is comparable to the latest rover item ?

Turbo oil pump, highest flow available. 9 Gallons per minute as against approx 6 GPM. This pump is a late model slot drive and will fit into any 1275cc engine and exactly the same as the second generation of pump as sold by Unipart/Rover.


I’ll be running a suck through Eaton m45 set up with around 120-130bhp so thought an upgraded pump would be best.

It is comparable to the factory turbo pump. The non-turbo 1275's had an ordinary steel backed 6GPH Pump fitted to them to the end of production.

The Turbo models (Metro MG Turbo and ERA Turbo cars) had the extra capacity to feed the turbo. It had nothing to do with the engine output.

[Cooperman]

If you go from a 4-bolt pump to a 2-bolt you need to check something. Some early engines (Cooper 'S' for example) had 3-bolt pumps and some have drilled and tapped an extra hole for a 4-bolt pump. It is very easy to drill through into a water-way with this extra hole, but that is not an issue when a 4-bolt pump is fitted. However, if a 2-bolt pump is fitted the gasket width on the oil pump gasket is only about 2 mm wide between the oil pressure area and the water.

I once rebuilt my engine and had to use a 2-bolt. It did a few miles before oil appeared in the water in the form of brown sludge. I changed the head gasket and flushed the system out, then re-filled oil and water and the same thing happened. After a lot of chat with 'Mini people', the general consensus was a cracked block or cracked head. 

Luckily, a rallying friend knew of someone who had had the same eperience and he suggested the extra oil pump hole as the culprit. I stripped it down and there was the evidence. The oil pump gasket had failed and there was water/sludge evidence in that area. I plugged the redundant hole with a 1/4" UNF stud and Loctite. Problem solved.

It certainly caused some head scratching.

[mini13]

Its worth mentioning that the cam endfloat is set by the thickness of the triangle "thrust plate" and the size of the step on the back of the cam gear, usually with a new triagle plate it should be pretty close, but if you've  changed to an after market cam gear then it may not be.

 

you can check the end float either by putting the triangle plate on and the cam gear and nipping it up and using feeler gauges, or during assy with a DTI.

 

A further note, there have been a few new cams  that contact the oil pump (I think these are the drilled ones with a ball pressed into them at the oil pump end, which yours doesn't have so you should be fine), so as a matter of course I now fit the cam and sort the end float (if needed) then put a bit of blu-tack in the oil drive slot on the cam, and trial fit the pump with no gasket to check there is clearance.

 

also check the oil pump bolts don't bottom out before the pull up onto the pump.

[sam138]

Thanks for the help, I’ve just put the triangular plate on as pictured below, is that the correct orientation ? In the second picture I’ve fitted the sprocket and cam nut and lock tab.

For checking the end float should I have the lock tab fitted as well ? I’ve watched some YouTube video without the lock tab when checking the end float.

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Edited by sam138, 08 February 2022 - 07:23 AM.

[GraemeC]

It doesn’t matter whether the lock nut is used when checking endfloat, the nut must be torqued up though.

[Spider]

I know I probaly sound like a broken record here.

If the Cam has been ground correctly, as long as there's 0.003" end float of more, it doesn't matter how much end float there actually is.

If you look at the drawing for the Thrust plate, it is made for thrust on one side only;-

 

[sam138]

Thanks for the reply, is the thrust plate on correctly then in my image ? I’ve followed a few YouTube videos on this. The camshaft is a Minispares Evo 001 so I’m unsure how to confirm if this has been ground correctly ?

[KTS]

thrust plate looks to be right to me, and bearing in mind your block is upside down, it also matches the drawing Spider posted above

 

i believe a 'properly' ground cam should have a slight taper on the cam lobes to make the cam followers spin as the camshaft rotates, the taper (..assuming it's ground the right way ) will also cause the cam to bias itself against the thrust plate 

[Spider]

Thanks for the reply, is the thrust plate on correctly then in my image ? I’ve followed a few YouTube videos on this. The camshaft is a Minispares Evo 001 so I’m unsure how to confirm if this has been ground correctly ?

 

Sorry, I did mean to reply here - yes, the plate is on correctly.

As KTS mentioned, the Cam Lobes on the Factory Cams have a slight taper to them, all the same way and the 'Flat Tappet' Cam Followers and in fact, not flat, but have a dome ground on to them on an approx 42" Radius. The Cam Followers also ride off centre to the Cam Lobes, by arranging these parts (in the way it's been designed and machined), in this way, as the Cam rotates, it also makes the Cam Followers spin, so it's two elements rolling with each other, rather than one spinning and the other sliding, this greatly reduces Cam Lobe and Follower wear.

 

I've not had a Mini Spares cam to check it, so I have no idea if these have been ground in this way. There's been many after-market Cams I have come across in recent years that have been ground flat.