12 replies to this topic

[lildeucecoop72]

Hi I am replacing my Metro 4-pots that brake callipers, and managed to get  some used from a mini owner here in Norway (Metros parts are like hen's teeth here as they were never sold in Scandinavia).

 

I have reconditioned these and they soon ready for the new pistons and seals etc (I have even managed to source the right calliper bridge seals!)

As with most callipers, they are left and right handed and consist of 2 halves (also handed). 

 

The issue is that on one calliper, I have the same outer half as the other side so that means the angled bleed nipple points the wrong way on one calliper as shown in the picture. The grey calliper in the pic is correct, but unfortunately due to damage is currently unusable. 

 

The other side has the same issue. Why not swap the halves? i hear you ask...Well I would, but they are a slightly different cast-types so then they won't match/mate up properly which makes me more nervous than the bleed nipples pointing the wring angle.

 

My question is does it matter that the angle is wrong?

Has anyone used this setup on their car?

 

I don't want to compromise safety or performance.

 

Thanks in advance for your advice. 

 

 

Attached Files

•  calliper.jpg   67.88K   0 downloads

[nicklouse]

Mmmm bleed of the car so you can move the caliper to get the air out.

 

 

BUT

 

you do know that the Metros had A and B calipers and they IIRC used different pads. This is pre Vented and yours don’t look Vented.

[viz139]

The angle of the nipple usually follows the angle of the tube to the piston so it appears the red caliper has a wrong half on it.

As per your photo.

First nipple at the bottom bleeds Bottom right piston

Second nipple at top bleeds top right piston

Third nipple on left ( not shown) bleeds two left pistons.

[lildeucecoop72]

Hi nicklouse and viz139, thanks for your quick replies! :)

 

I've had Metro callipers before. The previous owner had put them on but the bleed nipples had snapped off on the old ones and are now unserviceable after i damaged the thread trying to extract them)

I was very happy with them and wanted the same again.

 

Nicklouse: I am not sure what A and B mean but discs are not vented, hence no spacers:

 

https://www.minispar...|Back to search

 

Thanks for the tip om moving them to get the air out!

 

Viz139: You are correct, the red one does have the wrong half on it, as I was sent the wrong halves (used parts someone happened to have here).
Sourcing the correct halfs will be time consuming here and I would like to get the car back on the road for the short Norwegian summer. 

 

My questions is does it matter if it's the wrong half? Will it bleed OK and will safety/perfomance be compromised?

[Spider]

These are a true twin circuit caliper, hence why they take 2 hoses to each caliper.

Usually, when fitting to a Mini, you only have 1 circuit available, so you end up with a rather untidy looping hose between the 2 ports on the calipers.

When I have fitted these up to a Mini, I've split them, removed the pistons, seals etc and drilled through the bases in the piston cambers, so they are linked internally. Then fitted a plug to the lower hose port  This also negates the need for 3 nipples on each caliper and brings it down to 1 (if memory serves).

Without thinking too much about the halves and how they are on your set there, I'm pretty sure that one of the cambers can't be bleed or at best, the caliper will need unbolting from the hub and inverting to get the air out of it.

[lildeucecoop72]

Mmmm bleed of the car so you can move the caliper to get the air out.

 

 

BUT

 

you do know that the Metros had A and B calipers and they IIRC used different pads. This is pre Vented and yours don’t look Vented.

Thanks for the bleed tip nicklouse! Yes I have the thinner Metro discs (pre vent).

 

https://www.minispar...|Back to search

 

The angle of the nipple usually follows the angle of the tube to the piston so it appears the red caliper has a wrong half on it.

As per your photo.

First nipple at the bottom bleeds Bottom right piston

Second nipple at top bleeds top right piston

Third nipple on left ( not shown) bleeds two left pistons.

 

Hi Viz139. Correct, they don t match but I haven't got the correct one. (finding the correct one will take a lot time to source here in Norway as they never sold the metro in scandinavia). I am hoping to get the car on the road soon as the norwegian summers are short ;)

 

So my question is does it matter that its the wrong half/wrong angle?

 

Will it affect safety or performance (my thinking is probably not) but it might be more difficult to bleed?

[lildeucecoop72]

Mmmm bleed of the car so you can move the caliper to get the air out.

 

 

BUT

 

you do know that the Metros had A and B calipers and they IIRC used different pads. This is pre Vented and yours don’t look Vented.

Thanks for the bleed tip nicklouse! Yes I have the thinner Metro discs (pre vent).

 

https://www.minispar...|Back to search

 

The angle of the nipple usually follows the angle of the tube to the piston so it appears the red caliper has a wrong half on it.

As per your photo.

First nipple at the bottom bleeds Bottom right piston

Second nipple at top bleeds top right piston

Third nipple on left ( not shown) bleeds two left pistons.

 

Hi Viz139. Correct, they don t match but I haven't got the correct one. (finding the correct one will take a lot time to source here in Norway as they never sold the metro in scandinavia). I am hoping to get the car on the road soon as the norwegian summers are short ;)

 

So my question is does it matter that its the wrong half/wrong angle?

 

Will it affect safety or performance (my thinking is probably not) but it might be more difficult to bleed?

[nicklouse]

 

Nicklouse: I am not sure what A and B mean but discs are not vented, hence no spacers:

Yes many people dont. When the metro was launched there were two different types of calipers used A and B and there was a great big sticker on the slam panel stating which type the car was fitted with. IIRC is was the B type that ended up being the version used as the vented version.

your image shows two different looking calipers. Have you checked that the pads you have fit both? And the pins go through the holes?

 DDBF2E64-A0D8-4F03-B5CF-70AFAD2C801F.png   341.71K   2 downloads

 99EACC89-7387-43AE-A335-B715EB44C7E4.jpeg   42.43K   2 downloads

[lildeucecoop72]

 

 

Nicklouse: I am not sure what A and B mean but discs are not vented, hence no spacers:

Yes many people dont. When the metro was launched there were two different types of calipers used A and B and there was a great big sticker on the slam panel stating which type the car was fitted with. IIRC is was the B type that ended up being the version used as the vented version.

your image shows two different looking calipers. Have you checked that the pads you have fit both? And the pins go through the holes?

DDBF2E64-A0D8-4F03-B5CF-70AFAD2C801F.png

99EACC89-7387-43AE-A335-B715EB44C7E4.jpeg

 

 

Thanks, yes they look like different sorts of casts. I bought them as a job lot from a chap in Trondheim. They were split and unpainted when I got them.

It's possible to swap the halfs over so that the bleed nipples angle the right way, but would prefer to match the same cast type (My gut feeling was that this was a bad idea).
Its possible the one to left is type B (my original ones are identical to the one on the right and these worked fine with the discs I have).  

 

I will check if the pins/pads fit. I have bought Greenstuff (as always) https://www.minispar...49.aspx|Back to

 

 

 

[Ethel]

The angle of the nipple usually follows the angle of the tube to the piston so it appears the red caliper has a wrong half on it.

As per your photo.

First nipple at the bottom bleeds Bottom right piston

Second nipple at top bleeds top right piston

Third nipple on left ( not shown) bleeds two left pistons.

 

This:

 

The middle nips are to let air out of the lower circuit. Flip it upside down & you'll be draining fluid from the top circuit.

 

I had a set of Cooper S calipers that were both from the same side for years - it was a bit of a pain to have to unbolt a caliper from the hub & turn it over every time  it needed bleeding, but not as painful as spending money for a Yorkshireman. 

 

 

....wonder if you could drill a connection in to the other cylinder - if they're plumbed to the same master cylinder circuit they're linked anyway.

[lildeucecoop72]

Nicklouse: I am not sure what A and B mean but discs are not vented, hence no spacers:

Yes many people dont. When the metro was launched there were two different types of calipers used A and B and there was a great big sticker on the slam panel stating which type the car was fitted with. IIRC is was the B type that ended up being the version used as the vented version.
your image shows two different looking calipers. Have you checked that the pads you have fit both? And the pins go through the holes?
DDBF2E64-A0D8-4F03-B5CF-70AFAD2C801F.png
99EACC89-7387-43AE-A335-B715EB44C7E4.jpeg


Thanks, yes they look like different sorts of casts. I bought them as a job lot from a chap in Trondheim. They were split and unpainted when I got them.

It's possible to swap the halfs over so that the bleed nipples angle the right way, but would prefer to match the same cast type (My gut feeling was that this was a bad idea).
Its possible the one to left is type B (my original ones are identical to the one on the right and these worked fine with the discs I have).

I will check if the pins/pads fit. I have bought Greenstuff (as always) https://www.minispar...49.aspx|Back to

The pins and pads fit ok

[viz139]

Hi Viz139. Correct, they don t match but I haven't got the correct one. (finding the correct one will take a lot time to source here in Norway as they never sold the metro in scandinavia). I am hoping to get the car on the road soon as the norwegian summers are short ;)

 

So my question is does it matter that its the wrong half/wrong angle?

 

Will it affect safety or performance (my thinking is probably not) but it might be more difficult to bleed?

 

Bleeding these calipers can be awkward when fitted correctly, having to remove the caliper and turn upsidedown will only make it harder..If you plan on using one circuit to push both pairs of pistons than drilling a link tube between the two outer pistons will allow you bleed both from the third nipple.

[lildeucecoop72]

Hi, a litte update here.

 

I have sorted the issue managing to remove the stuck bleed-nippel on the side of the unpainted caliper in the picture from my first post (a mate welded on a nut and teased it out with high temp/cooling) 

 

This has solved my problem as I had another correctly angled half, so both of these can be used to make a complete set.

I will of course paint and recondition by adding new pistons/seals/bleed nipple and torque bolts to proper settings with locktite.

 

Again thanks for all of your replies, advice and info. 

 

 

P.S. Oh and by the way... if anyone is interested, I think I might have solved the problem of the infamous metro caliper bridges-seals (or lack thereof) with these: 

 

https://www.triumph-...n-caliper-halfs

 

These seem to have the same part number as the original metro bridge seal: 102799, and were (also? anyone?) used in Triumph motorbike calipers also made by AP in the late 70's.

LP williams have had them remanufactured to orig specs for their MC customers.

 

Note and disclaimer: I have yet to test these, but upon inspection with vernier etc they look promising, and more promising than anything else I have seen so far.

I've OCD'd on this with loads of dead ends. I've tried to get 'old new stock', I ordered many types of bridge seals reccomended by mini parts suppliers on the offchance they will fit, with no luck.

I made countless phone calls to various suppliers and manufactureres (AP Racing, Jonspeed, 920 Engineering, Questmead, etc etc)...Nothing.

 

With a 'total pig-headed, unwillingness to give in', I started looked at other manufacturere's such as Landrover, Talbot, when I stumbled on these Triumph bridge seals with the original metro part nr.

They seem to fit snugly in the metro caliper recess and are just proud of the surface to create a good seal when mated.

 

 

Attached Files

•  calipers.jpg.JPG   31.47K   4 downloads