10 replies to this topic

[weeally]

I have got round to strip my gearboxes.

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I have found a few things I cant get my head around and looking for some advice and knowledge.

Both gearboxes are DAM 5626 and the 3rd motion retainer is bolted on with 3 bolts which I believe is good.

 

One came without a transfer case and the other was part of a complete engine.

 

Is this correct?

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I believe these come in different sizes, bigger being for the turbo. But these seem to be two different sizes on one engine or am I missing something?

 

Also one gearbox had a ratio of 3.44 (62 teeth to 18 teeth) whilst the other had 3.38 (61 teeth to 18 teeth) this also has a missing thrust block and only had one fibre thrust washer is this a problem within the diff?

 

All the parts seems to be in very good condition so I will use the best to build one gearbox for now.

I'm looking to renew 

DIFF

1. Diff pin 

2. Fibre washers 

3. Planet gears ( or can I use what I already have??)

4. Bronze thrust washers

 

GEARBOX

1. Laygear thrust washers

2. Springs for syncroniser hub (or can I reuse?)

3. Spring for locking pegs ( or can I reuse?)

4. Baulk rings

5. Bearing for 1st motion shaft to transfer case (which one?)

6. Locking tabs

7. Central oil pick up pipe

 

Any recommendations?

Edited by weeally, 13 May 2022 - 04:16 PM.

[nicklouse]

Can’t actually see what you are measuring in the second.

[alex-95]

The 1st motion bearing (the one you're measuring)It's hard to see from your photo but it should have a metal ring pressed into the transfer case that the bearing runs on, a new bearing comes with the ring and bearing.

 

Are you sure it's 61 to 18 teeth? 

 

Whats the Spec of the engine thats going on the G/Box?

You'd have to inspect the planet gears to see if they are usable, they wear into the diff pin so they are usually worn as well.

 

1.The laygear thrust washer should be ok to be used again, as long as it gives the correct clearance.

2.Get new springs

3. I guess these are the springs to old 2nd and 3rd gear on? if so they can be reused

[Gaz66]

In the second pic it looks like you are measuring the case instead of the steel race inside the hole.
Measure the steel race internally and see if it compares to the bearing measurement.

[super6al]

Regarding the diff.

Check the thickness of the new fibre washers against your old ones. The new ones I bought were thicker than original & I had to thin them down with wet & dry on a flat surface. The new bronze washers (for the planet gears?) didn't match the convex shape of the gears & had to be lapped to fit.

Alan 

[weeally]

Can’t actually see what you are measuring in the second.

Its the 1st motion outer for the bearing on the transfer case. Its to big for what is on the gearbox this is what is confusing me.

 

The 1st motion bearing (the one you're measuring)It's hard to see from your photo but it should have a metal ring pressed into the transfer case that the bearing runs on, a new bearing comes with the ring and bearing.

 

Are you sure it's 61 to 18 teeth? 

 

Whats the Spec of the engine thats going on the G/Box?

You'd have to inspect the planet gears to see if they are usable, they wear into the diff pin so they are usually worn as well.

 

1.The laygear thrust washer should be ok to be used again, as long as it gives the correct clearance.

2.Get new springs

3. I guess these are the springs to old 2nd and 3rd gear on? if so they can be reused

Yeah its 61 teeth on the crown wheel and 18 on the pinion, I know strange.

 

Yeah springs for the 2nd and 3rd gear . I'll reuse them and buy new syncro hub springs.

 

I'm not really sure as yet as I'm waiting on the engineering company to have a look over the two blocks, crank and pistons I gave him to see what I can and cannot use. 

I have intentions of possibly going the turbo route as both blocks were turbo's (going from the t3 it had to a gt17) but not more than 100 to 120 bhp. 

[alex-95]

 

Can’t actually see what you are measuring in the second.

Its the 1st motion outer for the bearing on the transfer case. Its to big for what is on the gearbox this is what is confusing me.

 

The 1st motion bearing (the one you're measuring)It's hard to see from your photo but it should have a metal ring pressed into the transfer case that the bearing runs on, a new bearing comes with the ring and bearing.

 

Are you sure it's 61 to 18 teeth? 

 

Whats the Spec of the engine thats going on the G/Box?

You'd have to inspect the planet gears to see if they are usable, they wear into the diff pin so they are usually worn as well.

 

1.The laygear thrust washer should be ok to be used again, as long as it gives the correct clearance.

2.Get new springs

3. I guess these are the springs to old 2nd and 3rd gear on? if so they can be reused

Yeah its 61 teeth on the crown wheel and 18 on the pinion, I know strange.

 

Yeah springs for the 2nd and 3rd gear . I'll reuse them and buy new syncro hub springs.

 

I'm not really sure as yet as I'm waiting on the engineering company to have a look over the two blocks, crank and pistons I gave him to see what I can and cannot use. 

I have intentions of possibly going the turbo route as both blocks were turbo's (going from the t3 it had to a gt17) but not more than 100 to 120 bhp. 

 

It'll pay to get a cross pin diff, rather than a standard one.

[weeally]

Yeah ill have a look into that thanks alex- 95

 

 

this is the bearing I'm talking about and the gap or am I missing something

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As for the planet wheels and shaft probably a good idea to get new ones as seems to be a bit of wear on the shaft.

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I did read that turbo units did not have the thrust block so this could be why it never had one but was later re introduced later on.

[Spider]

The only final drive set that used an 18 tooth pinion was the 18 / 62 set of the 3.44:1 Ratio. You must have miscounted somewhere or it's a non-factory set.

 

The early Metros had no centre block in the Diffs. The Output shaft that has no thrust has disintegrated. That's rather common for these thrusts, it's what the factory used from roughly the late 60's. Prior to that, they were Brass and would last forever. In overhauling the diff, if this is what you are going to stick with, then all 'internal' parts of the diff should be replaced. They don't wear well and are prone to breaking when they wear enough.

Transfer Housings are not matched, so as long as you get one that suits the idler gear (there was 2 sizes in the shafts and 3 sizes in the bearings here), then you'll be sweet there. The difference between the standard and turbo Outrigger Bearings was on the OD of the outer ring that's in the Transfer Housing, I don't have the 2 sizes to hand, sorry.

[nicklouse]

 

Can’t actually see what you are measuring in the second.

Its the 1st motion outer for the bearing on the transfer case. Its to big for what is on the gearbox this is what is confusing me.

 

The 1st motion bearing (the one you're measuring)It's hard to see from your photo but it should have a metal ring pressed into the transfer case that the bearing runs on, a new bearing comes with the ring and bearing.

 

Are you sure it's 61 to 18 teeth? 

 

Whats the Spec of the engine thats going on the G/Box?

You'd have to inspect the planet gears to see if they are usable, they wear into the diff pin so they are usually worn as well.

 

1.The laygear thrust washer should be ok to be used again, as long as it gives the correct clearance.

2.Get new springs

3. I guess these are the springs to old 2nd and 3rd gear on? if so they can be reused

Yeah its 61 teeth on the crown wheel and 18 on the pinion, I know strange.

 

Yeah springs for the 2nd and 3rd gear . I'll reuse them and buy new syncro hub springs.

 

I'm not really sure as yet as I'm waiting on the engineering company to have a look over the two blocks, crank and pistons I gave him to see what I can and cannot use. 

I have intentions of possibly going the turbo route as both blocks were turbo's (going from the t3 it had to a gt17) but not more than 100 to 120 bhp. 

 

So you are measuring the case not the inner surface of the outer race. If that is so you have a turbo housing as the standard is 

[weeally]

The only final drive set that used an 18 tooth pinion was the 18 / 62 set of the 3.44:1 Ratio. You must have miscounted somewhere or it's a non-factory set.

 

The early Metros had no centre block in the Diffs. The Output shaft that has no thrust has disintegrated. That's rather common for these thrusts, it's what the factory used from roughly the late 60's. Prior to that, they were Brass and would last forever. In overhauling the diff, if this is what you are going to stick with, then all 'internal' parts of the diff should be replaced. They don't wear well and are prone to breaking when they wear enough.

Transfer Housings are not matched, so as long as you get one that suits the idler gear (there was 2 sizes in the shafts and 3 sizes in the bearings here), then you'll be sweet there. The difference between the standard and turbo Outrigger Bearings was on the OD of the outer ring that's in the Transfer Housing, I don't have the 2 sizes to hand, sorry.

Ill have another look into the x pin diff but either way I will eventually rebuild this diff as I already have a running 1275 engine. Yeah, I don't think this is factory at all, probably the reason I bought these years ago for much cheapness. I recounted the and still the same numbers.

I found the sizes 

Shafts 14mm and 18mm (I have the 18mm)

Bearings  39mm OD and for the Turbo 43mm OD

 

 

 

 

Can’t actually see what you are measuring in the second.

Its the 1st motion outer for the bearing on the transfer case. Its to big for what is on the gearbox this is what is confusing me.

 

The 1st motion bearing (the one you're measuring)It's hard to see from your photo but it should have a metal ring pressed into the transfer case that the bearing runs on, a new bearing comes with the ring and bearing.

 

Are you sure it's 61 to 18 teeth? 

 

Whats the Spec of the engine thats going on the G/Box?

You'd have to inspect the planet gears to see if they are usable, they wear into the diff pin so they are usually worn as well.

 

1.The laygear thrust washer should be ok to be used again, as long as it gives the correct clearance.

2.Get new springs

3. I guess these are the springs to old 2nd and 3rd gear on? if so they can be reused

Yeah its 61 teeth on the crown wheel and 18 on the pinion, I know strange.

 

Yeah springs for the 2nd and 3rd gear . I'll reuse them and buy new syncro hub springs.

 

I'm not really sure as yet as I'm waiting on the engineering company to have a look over the two blocks, crank and pistons I gave him to see what I can and cannot use. 

I have intentions of possibly going the turbo route as both blocks were turbo's (going from the t3 it had to a gt17) but not more than 100 to 120 bhp. 

 

So you are measuring the case not the inner surface of the outer race. If that is so you have a turbo housing as the standard is 

 

 

Cant explain this one, maybe the reason I got the engines years ago for cheap.

So I guess I'll need to purchase a Turbo bearing which would make sense IF going down that route or find another transfer case to match.

Edited by weeally, 13 May 2022 - 08:05 PM.