7 replies to this topic

[Gnielsen]

Hi all. I’m new to this forum, having joined after recently acquiring a 1970 mini mk2 (i had a mk1 Cooper way back in the early 1980s when I served and completed my journeyman auto mechanic license. In my second career I worked for the past 30 years as a professional mechanical engineer. Am now retired and am about to begin restoring this vehicle in earnest. I have two themes in mind: if this car is a real Cooper I will do my best to restore it to original; if it’s a fake/good imitation, then I’ll swap 998 engine for big bore performance. So I welcome all opinions regarding the question of real or fake. All relevant info that I can think of, with photos, is set out below.

This mini’s provenance is relevant. Briefly, I am the fourth owner of this car, having bought it from an acquaintance. The original owner is unknown; the second was a local physician; the third did a total restoration about 16 years ago, drove it for a year and it has been parked ever since.

The car was advertised as a 1970 Austin mk2 Cooper. The VIN on the radiator shroud reads A - AW7L-174xxx. online VIN decoders suggest this an mk1 Austin (other than Cooper). However, the taillights and rear window reveal this chassis to be a Mk 2. It is unclear if previous restoration included replacing rad shroud (and hence VIN). The vehicle registration, on paper, is A A2SBD 125XXXX - decoded as a mk2 Austin deluxe.

Engine number: 9FD XE-H3700 Decoded as 998 Cooper with four synchro gearbox

Fender number: FE 230262
Commission number: 215S 81501A

Observations of possible relevance and shown In the photos attached are:
Hydrolastic suspension with reinforced bump stops, 7 1/2” power disc brakes (Cooper S brakes?)
Remote shifter - note both floor pans have been replaced (and have since been damaged by improper hoist use) but the front and right side of the remote shifter cutout appear original and factory made.
Badging on boot and bonnet appear correct with correct patina for their history.
Both doors appear to have been replaced indicated by green paint under the blue but Exterior door hinges are original as per hinge mounts behind A panels. I note there is no chrome on perimeter of sliding windows .
The speedometer appears correct (100 mph) - all instruments work.
British Leyland steering wheel
Engine fitted with single SU (AUD 280) carb
Single fuel tank, with possible holes drilled to accommodate second fuel tank?

Any help identifying this as real or fake is appreciated: I have an idea but I’m sure there is no shortage of folks more knowledgeable than me on this topic. Also, I’m fine with either direction I take this restoration; ie, restore to original or build for enhanced performance, but if it is truly original then It should be restored in that direction.

PS: help confirming the paint colours would be appreciated too. I’ve got conflicting data as to BMC paint codes (BU 8 or BU10 or?).

Attached Files

•  FE4D6242-A17E-40F3-ABBC-5897393A1974.jpeg   95.48K   5 downloads
•  BCB6ABF9-A9F8-4C9F-ABFA-849DBBE91671.jpeg   52.92K   9 downloads
•  74006827-4F37-4DD3-B207-685E6709CF02.jpeg   26.01K   11 downloads
•  47D5E859-82AD-4742-92AE-12A4F364E3CE.jpeg   25.71K   13 downloads
•  051A38F0-0CAD-418B-AD87-9FEBFAF1F10D.jpeg   35.71K   9 downloads
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•  F583DAB2-EA04-4B41-92D4-49D9F6D540B2.jpeg   28.37K   13 downloads

[johnv]

If the vin numbers etc don't come up as Cooper the I would say that's game over. You can 'cooperise' any model! Worth getting a heritage certificate as a definitive check.

Edited by johnv, 20 October 2022 - 02:29 PM.

[sonscar]

Is it? It is a bit of paper that says the given vin( not stamped on the body)is or is not a Cooper.The car could be anything still.Steve..

[whistler]

Cooper engines all had twin SU carbs. I also believe that Coopers had the top dash rail vinyl covered, same as bottom rail.

[johnv]

Is it? It is a bit of paper that says the given vin( not stamped on the body)is or is not a Cooper.The car could be anything still.Steve..

Yeah but if the numbers it's got on the v5 and the heritage cert say that it isn't a Cooper then it can't pass as one unless you get Cooper numbers for it. And who'd do that?

[Gnielsen]

Cooper engines all had twin SU carbs. I also believe that Coopers had the top dash rail vinyl covered, same as bottom rail.

Thanks for this. I can provide more info on these points: the car was fitted with a 4 way speaker and amp so the dash was changed to accommodate the speakers - ( between removing the stereo and bike rack car dropped 53 lbs) As for the missing twin SU’s, I’ve read that replacing with a single was not uncommon, as was upgrading to the Cooper S 7 1/2 inch discs which has also been done. The engine Number indicates its a Cooper 998, so the absence of twins carbs becomes a bit less persuasive regarding the engine. This of course does not make the vehicle a Cooper.

More info: I’ve read where the hydrolastic pipes/hoses are secured by 27 clips spot welded to the tub. I can count ten that I see and it’s unlikely that there are 17 out of view.

[nicklouse]

What goes the speedo (odometer) go up to?

it is on hydrogas…..

[mab01uk]

A Cooper bodyshell should have 5 boot board brackets riveted or spot welded in position around the boot floor and on the rear bulkhead for supporting a carpeted wooden boot board which fits over the battery and spare tyre. Even if they have been removed there should be evidence of them like pop rivet holes or the remains of spot welds.

 

Boot board brackets:-

https://www.7ent.com...-boot-board.pdf

 

BOOT BOARD BRACKET KIT

https://www.bullmoti...980-ck948/CK948

 

(There is a tendency for the general public in North America to call all Minis.....Mini Coopers).

 

There are some members of the Mk1 Forum who can date a Mk1 or Mk2 Mini bodyshell and whether it is a Cooper quite precisely from various often very small features that changed over the years if you can provide them with good quality photos.

http://mk1-forum.net/index.php

Edited by mab01uk, 20 October 2022 - 10:37 PM.