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Engine Starts Only After I Stop Cranking


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#1 snoutmeat

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Posted 19 May 2023 - 07:01 PM

After several months of sitting, my car is now running again, but here is the part I can't figure out: if I crank the engine with the key, the engine cranks but does not start. The moment I STOP cranking the key, momentum keeps the engine spinning for a bit, and then a cylinder fires and the engine often starts. It feels like it's not getting a spark as long as the engine is cranking, but as soon as I stop cranking, the spark plugs work....as if the battery has enough power for one task or the other, but not both? The car is acting like it needs a ballast circuit, or maybe just a fresh battery?

 

As I've read, cars with ballast circuits have an extra wire that runs from the starter solenoid to the coil to provide higher voltage while the engine is cranking; with the way my engine is behaving right now, it's almost as though there's a wire that's grounding out the ignition circuit while I'm cranking, as though I'm getting no voltage to the coil while it cranks. 

 

More background

 

--The car was imported from Japan, and many hands have been poking around under the hood.

--The car was switched from SPi to twin 1 1/4 SU carbs and from electronic ignition to points. There are a lot of dangling connectors under the hood. 

--I replaced the plugs, the distributor (for an electronic model), and the coil.

--For troubleshooting, I currently have a wire running straight from the fuse panel to the " + " side of the coil because the wire that had been connected was no longer giving me any power.

--Based on another thread here, I tested both the old and the new coil, and they're both non-ballast type -- 3 ohms resistance and a full 12v.

 

So if my entire ignition setup now is: 12v coming from the fuse panel to the + side of the coil, red and black wires from the (2-wire) electronic distributor to the plus and minus on the coil, and that's it (other than the HT wires, of course). 

 

Some of the Haynes wiring diagrams show inline resistors in the wire that goes to the coil; even IF my car had this setup, I'm running a wire straight from the fuse panel to the coil and the coil is a non-ballast type, so it shouldn't matter.

 

At this point, the only possibility I can think of is that the battery is too weak to both provide a strong spark and crank over the engine. It's a weird Japanese battery with smaller-than-usual (for the US, at least) posts and connectors, so I can't just grab a battery from another car to test if this battery is shot (the connectors are way too small to put on the posts of all my other car batteries). The battery is on the charger now, as is my "portable jump starter", so I should have lots of amps for today's testing. 

 

Has anyone else experienced these symptoms? No spark, no sputter, no sign of combustion at all while I'm cranking, but the moment I stop cranking the key, the engine sputters or starts?



#2 Spider

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Posted 19 May 2023 - 07:51 PM

It could be a worn Ignition Switch.

 

Common-ish issue.



#3 KTS

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Posted 19 May 2023 - 07:52 PM

one possibility is that the voltage is dropping too low whilst cranking and the coil isn't able to produce a spark of any real power, once the starter stops drawing current, the voltage will come back up and the coil can do its job

 

try connecting the coil to a separate power source (if you have one) and then see what happens 



#4 weef

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Posted 19 May 2023 - 08:18 PM

You will have to measure the power stays on the fuse that feeds the coil when the switch is in the crank possition.  When the switch is in the crank possition it cuts the feed to the ancilularies, you might have noticed that the wipers stop sweeping when cranking etc. It is only when the crank is released that power comes back onto the fuse and it is just luck if the engine starts or not. You could try running a temporary known feed, say from the constant live on the solenoid to the coil, then crank over and see if the engine starts as expected, or if you have a voltmeter measure the voltage feed to the coil while cranking to see what is going on.

Give this a try and get back to the forum.



#5 Avtovaz

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Posted 19 May 2023 - 08:26 PM

check your choke and heater valve cable, if they look like they also have been getting hot then your engine earth/s are poor. 



#6 snoutmeat

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Posted 19 May 2023 - 10:43 PM

You will have to measure the power stays on the fuse that feeds the coil when the switch is in the crank possition.  When the switch is in the crank possition it cuts the feed to the ancilularies, you might have noticed that the wipers stop sweeping when cranking etc. It is only when the crank is released that power comes back onto the fuse and it is just luck if the engine starts or not. You could try running a temporary known feed, say from the constant live on the solenoid to the coil, then crank over and see if the engine starts as expected, or if you have a voltmeter measure the voltage feed to the coil while cranking to see what is going on.

Give this a try and get back to the forum.

Oh my gosh -- this makes total sense. Duh! With the wiring mess under the hood, I had been considering running a fresh wire to the coil (making the temporary one I have wired up now more permanent), but tapping it from the fuse panel is a bad idea if it's not feeding 12v to the coil when I'm cranking.  If I need to run a new wire, I'll need to go back to the wiring diagram to find a circuit that's on when the switch is in position 2 OR 3. Thank you -- this is super helpful!



#7 cal844

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Posted 20 May 2023 - 09:15 AM


You will have to measure the power stays on the fuse that feeds the coil when the switch is in the crank possition. When the switch is in the crank possition it cuts the feed to the ancilularies, you might have noticed that the wipers stop sweeping when cranking etc. It is only when the crank is released that power comes back onto the fuse and it is just luck if the engine starts or not. You could try running a temporary known feed, say from the constant live on the solenoid to the coil, then crank over and see if the engine starts as expected, or if you have a voltmeter measure the voltage feed to the coil while cranking to see what is going on.
Give this a try and get back to the forum.

Oh my gosh -- this makes total sense. Duh! With the wiring mess under the hood, I had been considering running a fresh wire to the coil (making the temporary one I have wired up now more permanent), but tapping it from the fuse panel is a bad idea if it's not feeding 12v to the coil when I'm cranking. If I need to run a new wire, I'll need to go back to the wiring diagram to find a circuit that's on when the switch is in position 2 OR 3. Thank you -- this is super helpful!

Use the white wires at the fuse box

#8 Cabby

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Posted 06 December 2023 - 04:22 PM

Hey Snoutmeat, did you ever get this problem resolved, as I have the exact same issue. 12v at the coil + but drops to 8.7v when cranking. Eventually fires when I stop cranking. I've tried everything. Even fitted a new Powerspark kit and Viper dry coil. Pulling my hair out here. I'm kinda thinking it maybe needs a new battery now.

#9 Ethel

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Posted 07 December 2023 - 01:41 AM

Those figures sound about right.

 

Using the plumbing analogy it's like being in the shower with 12v of "pressure", then somebody flushes the loo and the pressure drops until the ballcock shuts.

 

Afraid it could be almost anything if the battery is strong & it cranks well. Check the easy stuff like points gap, condition of the coil  wiring & contacts...

 

Anything getting hot will be a indication of poor conductivity.



#10 68+86auto

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Posted 07 December 2023 - 04:09 AM

Hey Snoutmeat, did you ever get this problem resolved, as I have the exact same issue. 12v at the coil + but drops to 8.7v when cranking. Eventually fires when I stop cranking. I've tried everything. Even fitted a new Powerspark kit and Viper dry coil. Pulling my hair out here. I'm kinda thinking it maybe needs a new battery now.

 

The first step is to find out what the battery voltage is whilst cranking, below 9.6v is bad. If that tests ok then check that there is a wire on the wide spade terminal on the starter solenoid assuming you have a ballasted ignition. Also do all the warning lights stay on whilst cranking?



#11 Cabby

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Posted 07 December 2023 - 12:16 PM

Those figures sound about right.

Using the plumbing analogy it's like being in the shower with 12v of "pressure", then somebody flushes the loo and the pressure drops until the ballcock shuts.

Afraid it could be almost anything if the battery is strong & it cranks well. Check the easy stuff like points gap, condition of the coil wiring & contacts...

Anything getting hot will be a indication of poor conductivity.



#12 Cabby

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Posted 07 December 2023 - 12:19 PM

No points,it had a powerspark electronic ignition fitted, along with a Lucas sport coil. I replaced the electronic ignition with a new one,same brand, and a new dry Viper coil.

#13 Cabby

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Posted 07 December 2023 - 12:22 PM


Hey Snoutmeat, did you ever get this problem resolved, as I have the exact same issue. 12v at the coil + but drops to 8.7v when cranking. Eventually fires when I stop cranking. I've tried everything. Even fitted a new Powerspark kit and Viper dry coil. Pulling my hair out here. I'm kinda thinking it maybe needs a new battery now.


The first step is to find out what the battery voltage is whilst cranking, below 9.6v is bad. If that tests ok then check that there is a wire on the wide spade terminal on the starter solenoid assuming you have a ballasted ignition. Also do all the warning lights stay on whilst cranking?


#14 Cabby

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Posted 07 December 2023 - 12:24 PM

68+86, not ballasts. 3 ohms across the coil and 12v switched feed to coil+.

#15 Ethel

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Posted 07 December 2023 - 12:53 PM

Sounds like it ought to go.

 

Is the power spark defo rated for a 3ohm coil? As you have a meter you could check some other resistances, like from coil +ve to various points.

 

With the battery disconnected, the solenoid battery cable post (with the ignition on) would include everything & you can see if there's any change with the key in the cranking position.

 

It could just be the battery is past it's best, but that doesn't mean there isn't another dodgy bit making it worse.

 

 

An unlikely, but just in case - the coil LT terminals are the right way round!






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