21 replies to this topic

[Shooter63]

A bit of back ground before I get going, a few years ago I built an engine for my Mrs car, nothing spectacular as it was her daily driver, a 1293 with a home modded head, SW5 cam, 44 HIF, LCB and a RC40, the gearbox was a refurbed unit by Guessworks with a 2.96 diff. After running it in I took it to my local RR to get set up where it made 72FT/LB at the wheels so not too shabby, while paying the bill I asked the operator what needle did the carb end up with, now the answer did perplex me at the time, he said " I don't know its just one I knew it would work" but I thought OK he knows his job. On the drive home to be honest I wasn't that impressed, although it went OK I just felt there was something not right. Fast forward a few years and the opportunity came up for a tuning session with AC Dodd organised by my local Mini club, as this was a group thing the price was far too good to turn down ( more on the price latter). I turned up and found I was bog last in the line, so plenty of chance for a natter etc, my time comes so I pull the car up and said to AC I think its running rich and the ignition is wrong.
Well this is where the fun started, first AC hooked a timing light up and checked the timing and advance, and yup a slow advance curve, which sort of pi##ed me off really because I bought the dizzy off one of the big dealers listed as suitable for an engine of my spec where in fact its really some super safe curve ( note to self, buy one of AC Dodds dizzys ). Now the good bit, the fueling, he hooked the rig up and yup running rich, off comes the dash pot to reveal what can only be called an absolute animal bodge job which AC himself said was the worst he had ever seen. Now to say I was fu##ed off was an understatement, I had paid good money to get the job done properly by the RR. The needle had sharp edges on it and crappy flat on it, so a bodge job all round. This caused another problem in that the needle jet had been worn away by the sharp edges on the needle. This next bit is just my personal view AC went so far beyond what I was expecting is an understatement, to say that sodding worn jet was fighting him is to make light of the situation, after trying several factory type needles he had to resort to the needle lathe to get the fueling anywhere near right, I think it was nearly an hour to sort out. On the road test after all the work the engine was like night and day, it now pulls how I thought it should do, lovely and crisp with no staggers etc.
Now my view on all the above is going to be tainted by my experience at the RR but for my money AC Dodd wins hands down, you end up with a engine that pulls smoothly off tick over right the way through to red line, and on top of that AC is a real stand up geezer as we say round my way.

Shooter

[Steve220]

Tuning is only ever as good as the person doing it (sounds obvious). BHP performance in Birmingham blew up my engine because he didn't use any detonation detection equipment. Said he didn't need it. Once rebuilt, took it to Chris at EFI Parts, he took one look at the map and said it was amateur!

[eric67]

 It would be interesting now to compare the output on the same rolling road; but I very much doubt you’d want to go anywhere near them ever again!

[Gaz66]

To be honest back in the day filing the needle was commonplace. The likes of Harry Ratcliffe always had the file on em.

[Midas Mk1]

Tuning is only ever as good as the person doing it (sounds obvious). BHP performance in Birmingham blew up my engine because he didn't use any detonation detection equipment. Said he didn't need it. Once rebuilt, took it to Chris at EFI Parts, he took one look at the map and said it was amateur!

This, 100%.

Anyone can finance a dyno, you can't finance skill.

[Spider]

I've gotta say here in Oz, it's a similar story.

There's loads of Dyno's around now days, but I'm yet to find on locally who actually knows or more than likely, can be bothered to use it and actually tune the engines on.

In this part of the world, if it has less than 8 cylinders and preferably on OBDII or other computer port, the operators are simply not interested. Rather than actually map out a timing curve and go through a range of needles, they'll only make what's in there run better, job done (for them) and next.

I've had a few Mini owners come to me over the years after dyno sessions, asking what needle they need to be running, leading to a tune. While never professing to get results that would equal what they should get from a proper dyno session, I have usually been able to improve matters.

We do have one shop - in South Australia - who can run them on his rolling road and do a proper job, though the owner will soon be retiring, then we'll be left with none.

[whistler]

I've gotta say here in Oz, it's a similar story.

There's loads of Dyno's around now days, but I'm yet to find on locally who actually knows or more than likely, can be bothered to use it and actually tune the engines on.

In this part of the world, if it has less than 8 cylinders and preferably on OBDII or other computer port, the operators are simply not interested. Rather than actually map out a timing curve and go through a range of needles, they'll only make what's in there run better, job done (for them) and next.

I've had a few Mini owners come to me over the years after dyno sessions, asking what needle they need to be running, leading to a tune. While never professing to get results that would equal what they should get from a proper dyno session, I have usually been able to improve matters.

We do have one shop - in South Australia - who can run them on his rolling road and do a proper job, though the owner will soon be retiring, then we'll be left with none.

See if he'll take you on as a a young apprentice?

[Shooter63]

It would be interesting now to compare the output on the same rolling road; but I very much doubt you’d want to go anywhere near them ever again!

Funny enough I will go back but only for a power run just to satisfy my curiosity, I doubt it will make much more but I feel the whole torque curve will be raised before the peak figure. I haven't named the company as I know the guy no longer is involved as he retired.

Shooter

[GT Jimmy]

I wish I lived closer to AC, I'd be there for a good tune up

[Shooter63]

I wish I lived closer to AC, I'd be there for a good tune up

I went to him as part of a club group set up, just ask your club to book him.

Shooter

[MatthewsDad]

I wish I lived closer to AC, I'd be there for a good tune up

I seem to recall you live in the north west ? AB Garage in Hawarden is definitely worth a visit for an old school rolling road tuning session. Apologies if I've mixed you up with someone else on the forum.

[GT Jimmy]

I wish I lived closer to AC, I'd be there for a good tune up

I seem to recall you live in the north west ? AB Garage in Hawarden is definitely worth a visit for an old school rolling road tuning session. Apologies if I've mixed you up with someone else on the forum.

Yes, we've met a couple of times. I used Adie at AB, he did a great job setting the GT up. I've since changed a couple of things, ran well initially but has developed a misfire, driving me nuts trying to sort it

[timmy850]

If you watch his videos you can put together a good checklist to get all the mechanical parts in working order prior to a tune:
Set the valve clearances
Check the compression across all cylinders (mainly if you have a severe running problem)
Remove old plugs and check for damage or fouling etc
Replace all the plugs after setting the gap
Check the resistance in all the plug leads and replace if needed
Check the coil ohm and ensure its correct for your setup
Inspect the cap, rotor, points and replace if needed
Check the points gap and ensure the dwell setting is correct (if you have points)
Disconnect the vacuum advance and check and note the idle timing. Increase the rpm and check the advance at 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000 and note down
Idle timing would be something like 5-15 degrees
Max timing should be something like 28-32 degrees and stop advancing approx 4000rpm
Connect the vacuum advance and check the advance at 3000rpm and note down. The vacuum advance should add approx 5-10 degrees on top of the mechanical advance

Checking the fuelling is difficult without an O2 sensor/air fuel ratio gauge

Doing all the above will mean the engine should be running well enough prior to sorting out the fueling and only needs a few tools:
Feeler gauges
Timing light with dial back function (and dwell if you have points)
Multimeter (you can get these with a dwell function too)

[coopertaz]

rob at minisport always filed the needle and was spot on, shame that all the old guys who knew their stuff are now going and the knowledge with carbs is being lost. three up 'ere are no more

[PoolGuy]

If you watch his videos you can put together a good checklist to get all the mechanical parts in working order prior to a tune:
Set the valve clearances
Check the compression across all cylinders (mainly if you have a severe running problem)
Remove old plugs and check for damage or fouling etc
Replace all the plugs after setting the gap
Check the resistance in all the plug leads and replace if needed
Check the coil ohm and ensure its correct for your setup
Inspect the cap, rotor, points and replace if needed
Check the points gap and ensure the dwell setting is correct (if you have points)
Disconnect the vacuum advance and check and note the idle timing. Increase the rpm and check the advance at 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000 and note down
Idle timing would be something like 5-15 degrees
Max timing should be something like 28-32 degrees and stop advancing approx 4000rpm
Connect the vacuum advance and check the advance at 3000rpm and note down. The vacuum advance should add approx 5-10 degrees on top of the mechanical advance
 

If everyone did that, AC's videos would be 1/2 the length they are.