14 replies to this topic

[DeadSquare]

I'm looking for a small front mounted oil pump, ie: fits on the crank behind the timing chain sprocket.

 

Does any one know of a car which uses one that is smaller than the one on a "Bini" ?

[Spider]

It might be the last place you'd think of looking, but have a look at some of the American engines, that style of pump seems popular on them.

Another option here might be an Electric Pump.

[stoneface]

Not exactly sure what you mean, but have you looked at dry sump oil pumps. Externally mechanical or electric driven.

[DeadSquare]

I am wary of external pumps.

I had always felt safe that if the cam stopped, the engine stopped, but at Easter I helped take the wrecked engine out of an 1100 and strip it because the pin drive of the oil pump had failed.  ( We fitted a 1300)

Yes, the Americans seem to favour front mounted pumps.  Bruce McLaren once finished a CanAm with oil lights flashing because of a pump drive failure and seriously looked into a front mounted pump on the crank.

50 years ago, I came across a single overhead cam engine, on an automatic Mini gearbox.  The water pump was to one side where the cam sprocket would be and there was no oil pump at the other end, so there was maximum space for the bores.

For a long time, we couldn't figure out where the oil pump was, but eventually found it shrouded / inside the crank pulley.  It was neat and I have always hankered after doing the same

The all alloy engine was well thought out.  The 8 port crossflow head could be rotated 180 degrees, as the bearing / mounting for the distributor was the same as the cam sprocket on the other end.  I don't think that the same could be done with the crank as there would be no drive to the water pump

Looking down the bores was like looking down a well !!   the stroke must have been about 100mm and I think that we worked out that it was about 2 litres.

I have often wondered if the Maxi engine was its offspring.

[Shooter63]

I think most car engines have used a front mounted pump at some stage, Ford's definitely have, which means Mazda have. Harley-davidson use external pumps. I will be very interested in the ideas you have ( sketches etc) as this is the sort of left field stuff I love.

Shooter

[stoneface]

My only experience is the cam driven dry sump pump I have on my ford block mounted on a mini box.

Although I have the cam driven version they also do a pulley driven one and one built on to the timing cover.

Not sure if any of this is relavent so appologise if im completely off track.

https://www.burtonpo...cav-dse009.html

 

[DeadSquare]

I think most car engines have used a front mounted pump at some stage, Ford's definitely have, which means Mazda have. Harley-davidson use external pumps. I will be very interested in the ideas you have ( sketches etc) as this is the sort of left field stuff I love.

Shooter

Shame that Essex is a bit of a trek from Herefordshire, we could bounce ideas of each other over a pint or two.   I have been fiddling around with the 5 speed gear cluster from a BMW bike, but they don't want to slip into a Mini gearbox.

[DeadSquare]

My only experience is the cam driven dry sump pump I have on my ford block mounted on a mini box.

Although I have the cam driven version they also do a pulley driven one and one built on to the timing cover.

Not sure if any of this is relavent so appologise if im completely off track.

https://www.burtonpo...cav-dse009.html

Thank you for those pics, that would work ok.  I wonder when they stopped making them ?

[Ethel]

 

I think most car engines have used a front mounted pump at some stage, Ford's definitely have, which means Mazda have. Harley-davidson use external pumps. I will be very interested in the ideas you have ( sketches etc) as this is the sort of left field stuff I love.

Shooter

Shame that Essex is a bit of a trek from Herefordshire, we could bounce ideas of each other over a pint or two.   I have been fiddling around with the 5 speed gear cluster from a BMW bike, but they don't want to slip into a Mini gearbox.

 

There was a topic on TMF from a company that put a hayabusa  (I think) gearset in a Mini casing.

 

....think this is the one https://www.theminif...-speed-gearbox/

[Shooter63]

I think most car engines have used a front mounted pump at some stage, Ford's definitely have, which means Mazda have. Harley-davidson use external pumps. I will be very interested in the ideas you have ( sketches etc) as this is the sort of left field stuff I love.

Shooter

Shame that Essex is a bit of a trek from Herefordshire, we could bounce ideas of each other over a pint or two.   I have been fiddling around with the 5 speed gear cluster from a BMW bike, but they don't want to slip into a Mini gearbox.

There was an ozzie guy that was putting a Honda M/C gear set in a mini gearbox which looked pretty much spot on but I don't think he does it anymore, from memory he used the whole shebang including the change mechanism which would have meant straight pull gear shifts, which would be nice. As a side point a guy was developing a straight pull shift mechanism that worked with a normal gearbox but I haven't seen much about it in the last few years, that also used a rotating drum change system.

Shooter

[timmy850]

I don't know if this helps, but this is the chain driven oil pump from my Mazda UC engine. First photo has the sprocket and chain removed

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[DeadSquare]

Thank you.  Two good self explanatory pics.

 

Almost 70 years of experience has taught me, that the ambition of oil, is to leak.  The obvious place to put the oil pump is inside the engine, but it has to be driven from some rotating part and I haven't found anywhere to take a drive from a Mini crank, other than the nose and because of the way that the Mini engine is mounted, unlike the 1100 engine, there is no easy way of getting a drive downwards to an oil pump in the gearbox.

 

[Spider]

There was an ozzie guy that was putting a Honda M/C gear set in a mini gearbox which looked pretty much spot on but I don't think he does it anymore, from memory he used the whole shebang including the change mechanism which would have meant straight pull gear shifts, which would be nice. As a side point a guy was developing a straight pull shift mechanism that worked with a normal gearbox but I haven't seen much about it in the last few years, that also used a rotating drum change system.

Shooter

 

 

That was my friend Dave Rosenthal.

 

 

He was also doing DOHC Honda Head Conversions too.

He doesn't do any machining anymore. He lost that shed in a fire a few years back.

[Shooter63]

There was an ozzie guy that was putting a Honda M/C gear set in a mini gearbox which looked pretty much spot on but I don't think he does it anymore, from memory he used the whole shebang including the change mechanism which would have meant straight pull gear shifts, which would be nice. As a side point a guy was developing a straight pull shift mechanism that worked with a normal gearbox but I haven't seen much about it in the last few years, that also used a rotating drum change system.

Shooter

 
That was my friend Dave Rosenthal.
 

 
He was also doing DOHC Honda Head Conversions too.

He doesn't do any machining anymore. He lost that shed in a fire a few years back.

I had a funny feeling you might know him :)

Shooter

[stoneface]

 

My only experience is the cam driven dry sump pump I have on my ford block mounted on a mini box.

Although I have the cam driven version they also do a pulley driven one and one built on to the timing cover.

Not sure if any of this is relavent so appologise if im completely off track.

https://www.burtonpo...cav-dse009.html

Thank you for those pics, that would work ok.  I wonder when they stopped making them ?

 

Not sure as it was over 20 years ago when I last looked at them.

There are a couple of variants on ebay

https://www.ebay.ca/...:Bk9SR_qPpqyNZA

https://www.ebay.com/itm/156080570382