16 replies to this topic

[GermanMoreno]

Hi everyone, I’m checking out a car that’s advertised as a 69 Cooper s MKII. I’d like to know what I should look into to figure out if it is actually a Cooper s. What and Where are the vin plates and what are the «  matching numbers » … basically any features and details. I’ll add some pics

[GermanMoreno]

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[GermanMoreno]

Here

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[Homersimpson]

Check that it has the brackets in the boot for a boot board and that they seem to be original (i.e. not just added at a later date by someone).  If its had welding to the bootfloor then these brackets might have been removed and welded back in but the ones on the back of the bulkhead behind the rear seat should still be original.

 

I think both the Cooper and Cooper S had these though so its not a guarantee its an S but if it doesn't have these then its not.

[mab01uk]

As said above ensure it has boot board brackets, plus factory right hand tank fittings, neat remote gear change cut out with the two 'notches', oil cooler fitting, servo fitting. You can check the dates stamped on the wiper motor, boot lock, etc to see if they tie in with the build date, bearing in mind they could have been changed over the years. Glass is also dated by a code.

Not forgetting ordinary Mk2 1000s also had a remote cut out. The presence of right hand tank breather pipe metal tabs welded on the rear bulkhead and up under the rear parcel shelf should give the game away straight away as they are usually left off after a reshell or a non-genuine S copy....not that a reshell is the end of the world if the car's got good/some history, as many Cooper S were re-shelled for good reasons in the past. Suspension should be Hydrolastic if still original spec, conversion to dry rubber cone suspension de-values the car for many buyers who are after originalty.

A genuine Cooper S 1275cc engine block has tappet covers on the rear face.

 

Classic Mini Chassis/VIN Numbers and Commission Numbers:-

https://www.minimani...art_I__Revised_

 

Mini Chassis/VIN Plate info:-

https://www.minimail...sis-vin-plates/

Edited by mab01uk, 27 July 2024 - 10:28 PM.

[timmy850]

It's got a Springall steering wheel which is very nice

 

There's a big selection of other mods too

 

If you can get a heritage cert based on the chassis number you should be able to find the original engine number, paint code, trim etc. 

[floormanager]

Red flag for me is the steering wheel is on the wrong side

 

Seriously, it looks like it has the 'S' raised brake pedal.

 

Not sure the wiper motor is original, as my early 68 is the square type.

 

Behind the grill the vertical reinforcement should be at an angle for a 'S', to allow for the oil cooler.  Front panel appears original.

 

Notice no posts for the door handles, perhaps not fitted to export cars (less concerned about cyclists??)

 

The engine should have tappet covers and only a single core plug by the engine top stabiliser

Edited by floormanager, 28 July 2024 - 07:22 AM.

[MatthewsDad]

There's a lot of detective work to do to be absolutely sure it's an original S, or to understand which bits have been chopped and changed over the years. Does the vendor have a heritage certificate? Have you spoken to the mk2 S registrar at the Mini Cooper Register? I'd get hold of the MCR's buyer's guide too, or at least get someone knowledgeable to look over it for you. Depends how far you want to go on originality too - matching numbers etc - and how many compromises you are prepared to make. Good luck!

[mab01uk]

This is the ultimate reference book on the correct details and spec of the Mk1, Mk2 and Mk3 Mini Cooper & S.

 

Original Mini Cooper: The Restorer's Guide to 997 & 998 Cooper and 970,1071 & 1275 Cooper S: by John Parnell (Author)

"This is the definitive guide to correct factory specifications and equipment for all Coopers from the 997cc MkI to the 1275cc MkIII S, with comprehensive colour photography of cars selected for their quality and authenticity.

The definitive source of advice on correct original and authentic specifications and equipment, drawn from factory records, parts lists and catalogues, as well as the accumulated knowledge of the most respected restorers."

https://www.amazon.c.../dp/1906133190/

Edited by mab01uk, 28 July 2024 - 04:52 PM.

[alkiao]

Following on from a forum discussion re: ‘Radiator shroud stamp ID’ in which I asked what ‘PA 4 referred’ to? The solution given through Spider is ‘Parts and Accessories’, which seems to be the maximum potential answer and indicates at the least the wing and radiator shroud have been changed. So now for the factor of this submit. What is sufficient proof and provenance to show a automobile is a Mk1 Mini Cooper S? Note: The car is in Adelaide and from Australia.

 

 

 

 

 

snaptube vidmate

Edited by alkiao, 30 July 2024 - 11:22 PM.

[bobyg]

One thing I always look for is the front ash tray has a lid. Also as far as I am aware the distributor, ( no advance and retard connection) should be stamped 40819 and didn't 'S' cars have a thicker brake pedal lever?

So often, if the deck has been skimmed there is no engine number which people loose. Plenty of info on the internet re casting numbers. I have only recently found out that a straight cut remote box, I have had for 50 years,

is actually a rare 1071 'S'  one !! Also that some very early box casings were Magnesium. The only way to tell is scrape off some filings and set light to them.  I am still learning at 80 YOA.

Otherwise all the above points made by others apply.

[GermanMoreno]

Update on this:
Seller has a heritage certificate
VIN number matches the heritage certificate indicating it’s a 69 S
Body number checks out for a 69 S
Wiper motor stamps checks out for a 69 car
11 stud head
It has the cutout and plate cover for the magic wand
Boot has brackets
The right hand tank doesn’t seem to have the factory mounting system, could have been a bodge repair as it couldn’t have
Glass checks out for a 69

What doesn’t make sense:
Engine plate number is missing, unsure how to do if it’s a cooper S block
Some plates missing on the rear bulkhead
Slam plate diagonal support besides the oil cooler not present

Did all cooper S had twin tanks?

Photos to come

[GermanMoreno]

Also it’s a really crusty one, would it be worth it ?

[nicklouse]

Twin tanks was an option. If engine has had work the plate would have been removed. But for that year tappet chests and 10 stud and single bolt head. ( commonly called 11 stud).

[mab01uk]

Cooper S Twin Tanks or not Twin Tanks that is the Question:-

https://www.theminif...s-the-question/

Edited by mab01uk, 09 August 2024 - 03:11 PM.