14 replies to this topic

[madazv8]

Hi,

 

Just found this today.  I wanted to check something so removed the hub nut,  and this was the state of the taper washer. 

 

I have just put it together.  My torque wrench doesn't go up to 250Nm, and also everything is on the bench,  so I couldn't lock the disk (no tool). However my Ryobi impact gun goes up to 240,  so I used that when I tightened it up.  I guess that was a bad idea.  Wouldn't have expected this to happen, but seems these are sintered metal according to the minispares website.  New ones ordered,  will tighten up as much as I can conventionally, and leave a big note on my window to torque them up once the subrame is back in the car with working brakes. Am I right in thinking these are not going to like an impact gun,  or did I just have a bad washer? 

 

 

Attached Files

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[nicklouse]

Sorry buy a suitable torque wrench. Impacts are never good. It was most likely nowhere near tight enough or anywhere near 240.

[DeadSquare]

Hmm;  putting those bits back  would be an interesting test of "Gorilla glue" .

[Spider]

Bin them, they are a dumb idea.

KAD do a non-split version. You do need to check that they ate a snug / firm fit on the nose of the CV though.

[bikewiz]

Bin them, they are a dumb idea.

KAD do a non-split version. You do need to check that they ate a snug / firm fit on the nose of the CV though.

What Spider says. KAD non-split with either the Classic Minis Japan 12 slot nut or the similar 12 slot from Minispares. You need to buy or borrow the correct torque wrench to know if you have them tightened correctly.

[Earwax]

I see you are a Sydney sider. Another single piece cv washer made out of stronger material than original is available through Minis plus Bayswater melbourne - ( not cheap but good - I haven't used the KAD one but I would think it is good also)

 

when installing also just check that the thread shaft on the CV where it meets the main bearing shaft doesn't have a rolled edge that prevents the washer from seating. There were some CVs going around a while ago that needed a tiny dremel. ( If not - 

a] the Cv washer sits a bit like a see- saw and

b} you cannot get full torque applied

 

and lastly just check torque for either one hole under castle nut or two holes - not sure if different

[timmy850]

My split washers did exactly the same thing (this was back in 2021). I then got some “high quality” washers from the supplier and they’ve been fine

Dodgy one on the left and good one on the right

[Gaz66]

What was/is the point of the split?

[68+86auto]

Chinesium.

[Spider]

What was/is the point of the split?

 

To allow for manufacturing tolerances of the nose on the CV, that's the very short plain section, just behind the thread, but they fail in 2 areas that I have seen;-

 

i) when doing the nut up, it should draw the CV in to the split washer and at the same time pull the split washer on to the nose of the CV, however, with the taper in the drive flange, it also is closing up that split and then 'bite' on to the nose, and this is where it falls down in that they have a tendency to bite the nose before the bearing come under full clamping force. Then driving the car, it will slacken off the smallest bit, further reducing the clamping of the bearing assembly.

ii) when driven hard, the split closes up a lot and also twists the whole split washer. When the split closes up, all clamping of the Bearing assembly is lost and the drive flange is loose. You can see evidence of this in the taper on the drive flange, the bearing face on the inside of the drive flange and on the spacer of the wheel bearing assembly. The twisting is what causes them to break.

In short, they are junk and a dumb idea.

The latest CV as on offer from Mini Spares are exceptionally good and the manufacturing tolerances are great. These combined with the solid washers from KAD (others maybe good - I haven't tried them) work well together.

[madazv8]

I have brand new CV's from Minispares. Sadly just ordered a replacement pair of "sintered" split washers from them.  Will now look into the upgraded items,  especially as I'm going to be driving this hard, and with the extra power coming along soon.   Thanks for the insights folks.  This is what makes these forums great :) I will check the drive flange for any scoring too,  as this one was from the side I took apart that had a finger tight hub nut !

[imack]

Personaly, the original split BMC tapered washers from 1965 as fitted to my car have never caused me any issues. I've never torqued one, only ever tightened to FT and then to the next hole. I've also undone and tightened them with powerful Ingersol Rand air gun without issue.
I have recently replaced them with the non split KAD versions as I'd read on here about the split versions being inferior. Again, I've only torqued them to FT as before. Only time will tell.

[Spider]

 

What was/is the point of the split?

 

To allow for manufacturing tolerances of the nose on the CV, that's the very short plain section, just behind the thread, but they fail in 2 areas that I have seen;-

 

i) when doing the nut up, it should draw the CV in to the split washer and at the same time pull the split washer on to the nose of the CV, however, with the taper in the drive flange, it also is closing up that split and then 'bite' on to the nose, and this is where it falls down in that they have a tendency to bite the nose before the bearing come under full clamping force. Then driving the car, it will slacken off the smallest bit, further reducing the clamping of the bearing assembly.

ii) when driven hard, the split closes up a lot and also twists the whole split washer. When the split closes up, all clamping of the Bearing assembly is lost and the drive flange is loose. You can see evidence of this in the taper on the drive flange, the bearing face on the inside of the drive flange and on the spacer of the wheel bearing assembly. The twisting is what causes them to break.

In short, they are junk and a dumb idea.

The latest CV as on offer from Mini Spares are exceptionally good and the manufacturing tolerances are great. These combined with the solid washers from KAD (others maybe good - I haven't tried them) work well together.

 

 

One other thing I missed here is that because of the split in the washer and the taper in the drive flange, the nut can never truly be torqued / tight. Effectively, all that's going on is it's a spring being squashed and it still has more 'squash' to give, which occurs all the time, but particularly when cornering.

 

In the original design and production of this style of hub, they also fitted a 'centring washer' on the inboard side of the drive flange, while it didn't negate this issue with the outbard tapered washer,it did do some good for the wheel bearngs.

[madazv8]

Went to order a pair from KAD - always wanted something of theirs.... 44 UK quid for postage !!! erm, no thanks. I've noticed a lot of mental postage prices recently,  especially on Ebay. How about $40 for a pressure switch as an example.  anyway, I'll grab a pair as recommended by Earwax, thanks mate. 

[timmy850]

I got the heavy duty ones from Karcraft

 

If you email KAD, they can get you a better postage price if it's a small item