18 replies to this topic

[MikeJE]

I took my '62 Traveller today to a local garage with computerised tracking equipment that can deal with 10 inch wheels. They adjusted the front wheels (1/16th inch toe-out) but the computer showed the rear nearside wheel was toing-in far more than it should (43 minutes vs 6 minutes on the offside wheel).

 

I should be grateful if anyone can advise as to how I can adjust the rear wheel toe-in, please, preferably without having to dismantle too much!

 

Best wishes

 

Mike 

[mab01uk]

Note: The rear radius arms can get bent slightly. eg. if they impact a kerb or after a heavy sideways force/impact.

(Maybe compare if equal distances between rear subframe and the radius arm / shock absorber as a reference point on each side of the car).

Also check for wear/play in the rear radius arm pivot/bearings due to lack of greasing. Jack up and check for sideways movement of the arm.

 

For small precise adjustments, you can buy adjustable brackets for the rear subframe which replace the standard fixed outer brackets bolted to the subframe which locate the radius arms.
Minispares sell some (see link below) which are adjustable for both camber and toe-in.... however a Mini as standard factory set up has toe in at the rear, so you can just use suitable thickness shims/spacers between the radius arm outer brackets and the subframe to adjust toe-in without the need for buying the dual adjustable brackets.

 

CAMBER AND TOE REAR TRACK ADJUSTMENT BRACKETS MS73EVO

https://www.minispar...stment-brackets

Edited by mab01uk, Yesterday, 08:21 AM.

[68+86auto]

This can be adjusted by using shims between the arm bracket and subframe. The problem is 6 minutes is also incorrect. If no shims are already on that side, it suggests that something is bent/worn.

[Spider]

The issue with Shims is that unless there are any in there (which they don't from the factory), then adding any shims will only further reduce the Toe In.

Likewise, adjustable plates that Mab01uk suggested, only have quite limited adjustment for Toe In as the Arm very soon rubs in the the Subframe.

[stuart bowes]

that's what I was thinking, surely shims can only add toe out

 

adjustable plates or slot the hole and weld on washer in correct place, but identify if bent arms first (fair chance they'll need new bush / bearing / pin anyway so maybe price up refurbed arms and try that first before making changes to the fixing plate)

 

or quickly nip over to australia and get spider to check them on his jig :) I hear the scenery is also nice 

Edited by stuart bowes, Yesterday, 08:39 AM.

[DeadSquare]

Here we go again.  Minis aren't metric.

 

The OP should have 1/8" toe in, but says that he has a metric 43 minutes, which he tells us, is too much, so any shims will reduce the toe in angle.

 

It might well have been like that for over 60 years, BMC erred on the safe side, so long as there wasn't toe out, they shipped it off.

 

It is unlikely to be damage from clobbering a curb, as this usually results in more positive camber and toe out.

 

 

 

PS.  I used to slot the subframe horizontally, to adjust the toe in / out, and the outer bracket vertically for the camber.

 

As grip at the rear is almost a hindrance when racing, I ran parallel wheels and no camber for minimum drag, but for Rallycross I'd have at least 1/4" toe in and as much negative camber as rubbing the shocks would permit.

Edited by DeadSquare, Yesterday, 09:12 AM.

[stuart bowes]

sorry, read wrong way around my bad

 

 nearside wheel was toing-in far more than it should 

                                         ^^^

Edited by stuart bowes, Yesterday, 08:59 AM.

[MikeJE]

Many thanks, all, very grateful for all the suggestions (especially like the one about going to Australia with it - may take a bit of time, though!). I think first off I will check the radius arms. They don't have any play as I checked that recently, but I suppose they could be bent as it is only a small amount out. Again, thanks all, that is really helpful

 

Best wishes

 

Mike

[68+86auto]

The factory specification is about 30 minutes of total toe in which means 15 minutes per wheel. Adding shims to the NS would reduce the 43 minutes of toe in in order to get it back to spec or equal to the other side. Making it equal to the other side will make it steer straight but it will be out of spec. The other arm could be bent however I suspect that the subframe isn't sitting correctly compared to the front wheels. That is why one side has too much toe in and the other too little. This could be due to failed subframe mounting bushes or a poor repair to the body. I know people like to blame the factory for this but somehow all my minis are perfect so I don't think the factory was ever the issue.

[68+86auto]

Here we go again.  Minis aren't metric.

 

The OP should have 1/8" toe in, but says that he has a metric 43 minutes

 

Is there a different angle measurement that anyone uses other than degrees/minutes/seconds for alignments? Should we be using radians?

1/8" or inches aren't an angle.

[alpder]

 

Here we go again.  Minis aren't metric.

 

The OP should have 1/8" toe in, but says that he has a metric 43 minutes

 

Is there a different angle measurement that anyone uses other than degrees/minutes/seconds for alignments? Should we be using radians?

1/8" or inches aren't an angle.

 

I guess in past times you'd measure the distance between the bulgiest part* of the left and right tyres, first at the front of the tyres, then at the back of the same tyres. The difference in lengths gives the toe "measurement". Since the angle was fixed by the manufactured shapes of the rear subframe and the arms it was, presumably, considered unadjustable so any discrepancy in the distance measurement (if anyone ever bothered to measure) would've probably been corrected - at least at a main dealer - by replacing those parts.

 

*Actually, at a given radius from the wheel centre, but I'm guessing (for 10" wheels at least) they're the same, specified that way for ease of measurement.

 

Now, we routinely check both sides separately and have ways of making adjustments, so measuring the total toe (L+R) isn't so helpful. Although the simple distance-difference between a fore-and-aft line (e.g. a string) and the bulgiest parts of the front and back of one tyre remains a good way to measure toe, so expressing it as a distance remains useful. The two distances (radius-from-centre (x2) and amount of toe) can be converted to an angle but if you're setting-up using a ruler and a string, it's not especially helpful to do this... so long as everyone uses the same radius-from-centre.

 

There seems - hardly surprising - frequent confusion whether the factory toe specification refers to one wheel, or the total of two wheels combined. This occurs irrespective of whether it's expressed as distance or angle. I remain uncertain myself on this and have to look it up every time I measure. But maybe that's just me and my old, old memory. It'd be great to have one pinned thread with a picture of what exactly the numbers should be at each wheel and how they can be measured-off against strings.

Edited by alpder, Yesterday, 12:54 PM.

[cal844]

All we do in UK short oval racing is to measure the front and rear of the tyres with a plate across the side walls of the tyre

If it pulls to one side we then adjust the track rod length on one side, shortening the other to align the rack.

It is accurate enough for an experienced hand to get it right

[Spider]

 

Here we go again.  Minis aren't metric.

 

The OP should have 1/8" toe in, but says that he has a metric 43 minutes

 

Is there a different angle measurement that anyone uses other than degrees/minutes/seconds for alignments? Should we be using radians?

1/8" or inches aren't an angle.

 

 

There's several ways it can be measured. None are wrong.

[Homersimpson]

I've had some cars in the past where the needle bearing in the radius arm fails and the pins move around to one side whuch then causes the arm to be out of alignment with no play, generally by the timer its got to this its worn into the arm and its scrap.

 

Worth pulling the arm off to check and replacing if there is any doubt if its straight.

[68+86auto]

 

 

Here we go again.  Minis aren't metric.

 

The OP should have 1/8" toe in, but says that he has a metric 43 minutes

 

Is there a different angle measurement that anyone uses other than degrees/minutes/seconds for alignments? Should we be using radians?

1/8" or inches aren't an angle.

 

 

There's several ways it can be measured. None are wrong.

 

 

Not saying inches are wrong, it was just that DeadSquare seemed to be saying the degrees are metric or "wrong"