19 replies to this topic

[mini-mad-mark]

I did search on the forum and there are a few topics on this subject but some confusing answers also some out of date links so I couldn't find a clear answer to my direct question.

 

I have some questions/comments based on what I read

 

 

The gauge is a Nippon-Seiki?

The gauge is designed to work with a direct live feed and does not require a voltage stabilised (10v) live feed?

The original sender was screwed into a specific port only present on MPi blocks?

The original sender is a larger thread than generic smiths/VDO and probably not easily able to be screwed into many places on a non-MPi car 

 

 

The direct question - is there a sender that will work with the N-S gauge but is small enough to be screwed into the "normally" available take offs?

 

The senders are typically 1/8" NPT for smiths and VDO with a few ways to screw these into the oil system that I have read about/seen/used

 

 

1) Into a T-piece in the oil pressure/light - I can't see how that works as there is not much space for it but any thoughts?

 

2) Sandwich plate under the oil filter with suitable tapping (got one of these on my latest project) and might be able to be modified/tapped out to work with the large N-S compatible sender

 

3) Oil filter housing with suitable tapping (neatest, but not £8.99 from Ebay like the sandwich plate!!!) - possibly available with the correct thread for an N-S compatible sender

 

4) Sump plug adaptor (which I have on one of my other cars and yes I now know it doesn't tell me the temperature of the oil directly going into the engine)

 

 

 

Also does anyone know the thread size of the N-S compatible sender? (In case that is the only way forward)

[Spider]

It seems this was for the most part a Smiths Gauge, though I * think * very late in the piece, they went to a VDO using that looked very similar to a Smiths. There should be some markings on the gauge you have. Just to be clear, the Oil Temp Gauge was a separate gauge from the 3 clock cluster, they fitted these along with a Voltmeter and Clock, but I think that was only in some models.

If it is a Smiths using, then a Smith's Oil Temp Sensor would marry up with it.

 

As for where to plump in the sensor, my preference has always been in either the oil pipe to the oil filer head or in the oil filter head or a spacer block behind that. If using a simple T piece, it needs to be somewhere where there is oil flow over the sensor bulb or it will be quite slow to respond to temperature changes.

[Bobbins]

These are the 3 Sportspack auxiliary gauges which I thought were Smiths from Caerbont? To add to mini-mad-mark’s question, where is the o/e sender located on the Mpi block? Is it fitted in place of the blanking plug adjacent to the oil pressure relief valve?

This is the appropriate sender: https://www.minispar...er-for-97on-mpi

Edited by Bobbins, 16 July 2025 - 08:58 PM.

[mini-mad-mark]

It seems this was for the most part a Smiths Gauge, though I * think * very late in the piece, they went to a VDO using that looked very similar to a Smiths. There should be some markings on the gauge you have. Just to be clear, the Oil Temp Gauge was a separate gauge from the 3 clock cluster, they fitted these along with a Voltmeter and Clock, but I think that was only in some models.

If it is a Smiths using, then a Smith's Oil Temp Sensor would marry up with it.

 

As for where to plump in the sensor, my preference has always been in either the oil pipe to the oil filer head or in the oil filter head or a spacer block behind that. If using a simple T piece, it needs to be somewhere where there is oil flow over the sensor bulb or it will be quite slow to respond to temperature changes.

 

I'm helping someone out so haven't actually looked at the gauge in detail - its a plastic bodied gauge so looks different to the smiths gauges I am used to seeing if that gives any clues?

 

I was looking for a smiths sender when I got into the other posts on here on the subject and thought it might be a N-S gauge

 

I'll get a look at the gauge and if its a smiths then happy days its all straightforward (and it would almost certainly need a voltage stabiliser I believe)

 

If it is N-S I'll report back and see if anyone else has found a smaller sender, or look at tapping out something for the larger N-S version although I doubt the loom will have the correct plug for that so that will be a hassle 

Edited by mini-mad-mark, 16 July 2025 - 09:36 PM.

[Spider]

,,,,its a plastic bodied gauge so looks different to the smiths gauges I am used to seeing if that gives any clues?

 

 

Sounds like a very late VDO manufactured gauge, but as best as I am able to determine, these both used the same sensor.

 

The Sensor in the MPI is just above the Oil Pressure Relief Valve.
 

[mini-mad-mark]

Sorry missed the VDO ref. So NOT a Nippon Seiki as I read on another post (I kind of believed that as I assumed Rover were using the same source as the main dials but of course they didnt !!!!!)

[tmsmini]

Definitely VDO that uses a large port same as the OPRV.

 

MiniSpares has a replacement sender that uses an adapter to fit the large port(not sure of the sensor thread size):
https://www.minispar...er-for-97on-mpi

 

Caerbont make a Smiths electric/electronic gauge, but you still have the issue of where to put the sensor. Someone makes a oil filter plate with a sensor port in it.

 

PS: MS talks about an oil filter housing with an oil temp port, but I cannot find it:
https://www.minispar...ons-uses-88g402

Edited by tmsmini, 19 July 2025 - 12:23 AM.

[mini-mad-mark]

Managed to get a look at the mini/oil temp gauge today. It is a plastic body gauge but marked with a (stick on) Caerbont Label which is the new-ish name for Smiths I believe - some take-over or other I suppose.

 

I assume it is actually a Smiths gauge and not a VDO gauge sub-supplied by Caerbont...

 

Does anyone know which sender can I use OTHER than the actual MPi sender 

 

 

The current MPi sender offered by minispares comes with an adaptor to fit it to the MPi block so I'm guessing it maybe a metric sender that requires the adaptor to screw in to the MPi block which might be a Imperial size (does anyone know these sizes just for my education/information?)

 

https://www.minispar...er-for-97on-mpi

 

 

I would really like to use an 1/8"NPT sender and a sandwich plate under the oil filter as the easiest solution as its not an MPi block but open to suggestions

[Steve220]

Mpi block has the same tapping, 1/2" BSP.

[tmsmini]

If it has a Smiths/Caerbont number, then I would contact them for the correct sender information.

 

My spare gauge is definitely VDO, but that doesn't mean Rover did not use different suppliers during the run

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[Spider]

Just as an FYI here, VDO have been supplying 'base gauges' to Smiths for some time for various gauges that Smiths put their touches to. Smith's latest range that are stepper motor type gauges are just about all parts of them are made by VDO.

[mini-mad-mark]

If it has a Smiths/Caerbont number, then I would contact them for the correct sender information.

 

My spare gauge is definitely VDO, but that doesn't mean Rover did not use different suppliers during the run

 

I had that idea 5 seconds after posting my note on here earlier so I did contact them and here is what I got:

 

 

Sorry can’t be much help. The only info gauge I have does not mention the sensor it uses, probably it would have been supplied by Rover themselves.

 

The design sheet says it was for 50 to 170 C temp range, the test data on the build sheet says lower 700 ohms, mid 70 ohms & high 22 ohms on a range from 50 to 170C.

 

I don’t know if the TT1307-8N is correct as the sheet says 60 to 165 C and I don’t have any resistance values for it as it is highly nonlinear.

 

We do not stock, or use anything in that range of sender.

 

 

I also had another thought - being a Smiths/Caerbont gauge will I need to use a 10v voltage regulator - I did look at the MPi wiring diagram on here but it doesn't clearly show the wiring for the oil temp gauge (or I'm too thick to decipher it !) but as far as  I can tell it doesn't show a 10v regulator in the live feed, what it also doesn't show is the sensor, it only shows an earth? (again might be my misunderstanding)

 

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[Ethel]

Can't imagine the voltometer being fed via a voltage regulator & they do appear to be on the same supply.

 

It wouldn't be unusual for a a modern accessory gauge to have the regulator built in.

[Spider]

I also had another thought - being a Smiths/Caerbont gauge will I need to use a 10v voltage regulator

 

 

The VDO and Smith's badged VDO don't use the voltage stabaliser. They are direct connected to 12V.

 

If I get time later, I'll look up a universal type sender than can be used with this gauge that has a smaller thread (likely 1/8" NPT or M10 x 1.0).
 

[mini-mad-mark]

 

I also had another thought - being a Smiths/Caerbont gauge will I need to use a 10v voltage regulator

 

 

The VDO and Smith's badged VDO don't use the voltage stabaliser. They are direct connected to 12V.

 

If I get time later, I'll look up a universal type sender than can be used with this gauge that has a smaller thread (likely 1/8" NPT or M10 x 1.0).
 

 

Cheers for that. 

 

I had a couple of el cheapo senders from some TEMU (!) gauges and tried those on the MPi gauge but putting them in boiling-ish water (90deg I guess by the time I got it connected) sent the gauge to full deflection so they obviously weren't the correct resistance at the temperature points required by the gauge.

 

I've been trying to look for a sender that would have the correct resistance for the gauge as stated by Caerbont but as you can see from their reply even they don't have one suitable so not sure where to go

 

Maybe I could approach MiniSpares and ask them  what is the thread size of the MPi sender now that means it has to use an adaptor to get out to 1/2" BSP