8 replies to this topic

[amsgw]

Hi all, I have been round every house, video, post thread, you name it. This car has had EVERYTHING. She flatly refuses to start.

1293 - rebuilt by me
HIF44 carb - rebuilt by me
Evo01 cam
Evo electronic dizzy, verified 0.8ohm coil, powers park leads (1.6-1.7ohms each), BP6ES NGKs barely 20 miles on them gapped to 35thou
New battery
Compression 150psi each cylinder (10:1 theoretical CR)


She first fired up after 2 bursts on the starter and ran albeit thready for the 40 seconds to bed the head gasket in. Left overnight, retorqued head, started again after 2 bursts on the starter and ran again thready until I turned her off after about 2 mins. Timing was about 4deg, upped this to 12deg during this run, still thready. Since then she will not start, to cut a long story short here is what I have checked so far:

Carb had no oil in the damper on first starts, thought this was contributing to weird running. Needed light machine oil (think about 5 weight) to achieve a drop rate of 4-5 seconds using a 1.25kg weight per guru, AC Dodd. Removing the oil again made no change to starting
HT leads are all new, good verified low resistance around 1.6ohms each
Plugs are definitely gapped correctly at 35thou
Hooked test light between coil neg and earth, it stays lit but dims in a flashing pattern when cranking indicating the dizzy module is fine?
She cranks like a goodun, though the voltage to the coil and starter drop to 8-9v from full battery voltage on cranking
Earths and positive straps are all freshly cleaned
Thought it was old fuel - siphoned the tank til gauge read empty, emptied the bottom of the float bowl. The fuel pump is working, I have a glass filter and can see it filling though the fuel is fairly yellow still. It's premium fuel
Seems very poor spark. White blue on the new dizzy but hardly any sparking, tried swapping to the original Lucas electronic dizzy which was much more consistent but instead a yellowy orange spark
Tried starting her on carb cleaner down the intake, nothing
Tried starting her hooked up to a known good 110ah 950cca battery from the Landy, no change
Tried with and without the choke, no change
Carb is set up per AC guidance for first starts on rebuilt HIF44 carbs, the rebuild kit was genuine SU. I sprayed some carb cleaner down into the jet in case some swarf somehow may its way through the fuel filter, no change
Tried the old good coil, measured 1.5ohm which ran the car before the rebuild. No change
Tried retarding the timing to the 4deg it was before I adjusted it as this is the last time she fired. No change
Firing order is definitely right
Vacuum is connected
Tried disconnecting the alternator in case its diodes had failed and was drawing current from the plugs, no change (see below re charge light)
Tried a jump pack, she cranks faster but no other change
The valves are all opening /closing as expected - nothing weird like a snapped chain


Weird bits:
The coil whines, really high pitched. Both of them
Plugs were originally wet and smelt of fuel on cranking, no longer. Could have been some of the oil down the bores originally as I bobbed some in the cyls when checking for oil pressure before starting but why would it smell of fuel?
The time it did start, the No charge light stayed on the dash. This light dims when cranking
This engine, with the carb/dizzy/plugs/leads/coil as-was all ran and drove last year. I never managed to run her in properly as she developed a primary gear/clutch issue as well as a few gasket leaks (thanks Hylomar, never again) so I pulled her engine again to sort this, she had done max 30 miles. She needed a jump pack to start but would still start up.
Sometimes on cranking when stopping, it makes a big 'scoosh' sucking noise through the air filter. Doesn't seem to be every time, and isn't consistent during cranking IE it's not just how it sounds when drawing air

Lots more context to add if needed but hopefully someone here has some gems as to where to look, I have exhausted my knowledge at this point

[Yellow 850]

On regular points ignition, you need 12 volts to coil positive for cranking. Voltage should only drop when engine is running.

Not sure if that is the same with your set up?

[lsto]

If it didn't start when you used easy start then I'd be looking at the ignition system first. Check the dizzy is not 180 out, make sure your leads are in the correct order, remember the dizzy turns anticlockwise and No1 is the fan end. Also make sure you have no excessive air leaks, breather connection on the carb either connected to all the engine breathers or blocked off entirely. Manifold is sealed correctly, servo fitting is tight etc.
Earths strap connected properly on the engine and good condition in the boot.
Good compression? No sticky valves? All gaps correct?
Does it have a remote solenoid for an inertia starter? I had a new one fail and short out the coil not so long ago, engine would crank but coil wouldn't fire.
When you checked the timing was the vacuum line connected? If so it may be over advanced if you measured it with vacuum?
It is frustrating but you have to be methodical.
Good luck

Edited by lsto, Today, 08:18 PM.

[Earwax]

I feel your pain.  

 

I am hoping it is a variation of the things you have tried to address and perhaps a methodic run through (again) will reveal something.

 

Does the engine spin freely without spark plugs in. 

 

Is oil getting to the top of the head?

 

I have seen very little time for overheated top end /valve/ rocker to cause a little nip up - bent rocker arm etc? The oilways in and around the head could have either compromised ( mud wasp whilst sitting etc) or reassembled without holes lining up under rocker post

 

If it doesn't spin as free as expected ( still with no spark plugs) - consider the possibility of the primary gear/ clutch issue returned or crank thrusts / endfloat impinged - hopefully not

 

You couldn't have sucked a blue rag into the system somewhere?

[amsgw]

On regular points ignition, you need 12 volts to coil positive for cranking. Voltage should only drop when engine is running.
Not sure if that is the same with your set up?

I'm not sure on this one! It's full battery voltage to the coil until cranking, then it drops

[PACINO]

It’s a bad habit not to post photos. A photo of the distributor, a general shot to see which air filter you're using... a video of an actual starting attempt.

You say you rebuilt the engine yourself, so I assume you know what you're doing. The gap setting for the NGK BP6ES plugs is correct at 0.75mm. If there is spark, then the reason it won't start lies with either the distributor or the carburetor. The HIF44 (which I’ve used for years) is a very easy carburetor to tune.

Put the old coil back in. Don't just trust the plug wires; check for spark on each one individually by removing the spark plug and resting it against a metal surface (firing order: 1-3-4-2). Enrich the carburetor mixture. Leave the distributor loose so that while someone else turns the key from inside the car, you can rotate the distributor slightly left or right. Pour a little gasoline into the air filter intake. It should start.

[amsgw]

If it didn't start when you used easy start then I'd be looking at the ignition system first. Check the dizzy is not 180 out, make sure your leads are in the correct order, remember the dizzy turns anticlockwise and No1 is the fan end. Also make sure you have no excessive air leaks, breather connection on the carb either connected to all the engine breathers or blocked off entirely. Manifold is sealed correctly, servo fitting is tight etc.
Earths strap connected properly on the engine and good condition in the boot.
Good compression? No sticky valves? All gaps correct?
Does it have a remote solenoid for an inertia starter? I had a new one fail and short out the coil not so long ago, engine would crank but coil wouldn't fire.
When you checked the timing was the vacuum line connected? If so it may be over advanced if you measured it with vacuum?
It is frustrating but you have to be methodical.
Good luck

Thank you
Dizzy is 100% the right way - I know this because I did it wrong the first time...now rectified
Leads are correct, no air leaks, breathers are connected correctly and no brake servo to otherwise steal vacuum
Earths are all perfect, freshly cleaned off and no resistance showing between engine and body earths and the battery neg pole
Compression is good, valves seem to be free and the head was reconditioned so should all be great - all were free and easy when lapping them
Pre engaged starter and the solenoid seems fine insomuch as it's spinning over the motor, which with the Bendix drive being dragged into place with the action of the solenoid wouldn't happen otherwise (please correct me on this if not right)
Even so if this had cooked the coil, surely the old one would then work?!
Timing was done without the vac line so should be right, even so I then retarded it to the original 'firable' position

I'm so lost!!!!
Appreciate all of your comments so far, keep em coming...must be something I'm missing....

[amsgw]

It’s a bad habit not to post photos. A photo of the distributor, a general shot to see which air filter you're using... a video of an actual starting attempt.

You say you rebuilt the engine yourself, so I assume you know what you're doing. The gap setting for the NGK BP6ES plugs is correct at 0.75mm. If there is spark, then the reason it won't start lies with either the distributor or the carburetor. The HIF44 (which I’ve used for years) is a very easy carburetor to tune.

Put the old coil back in. Don't just trust the plug wires; check for spark on each one individually by removing the spark plug and resting it against a metal surface (firing order: 1-3-4-2). Enrich the carburetor mixture. Leave the distributor loose so that while someone else turns the key from inside the car, you can rotate the distributor slightly left or right. Pour a little gasoline into the air filter intake. It should start.

I appreciate the confidence haha
I'm not sure how to post the photos / videos, does anyone know how?

It's a k&n cone style knock-off but have also tried without it when using carb clean to help it light off
The spark seems very weak and sporadic on the high energy coil, more reliable with the old coil but a yellow/orange spark. Neither have been successful so far past the first 2 runs (checked with them resting in their plug holes ie grounded)
I'm loath to richen the mixture as it's already a rich needle BFY - I didn't want to use it to begin with before fitting a gauge but have kept it fitted as it has struggled to start, it also didn't light off the carb cleaner
I've tried the dizzy turning, again no success on either the old or new and the new one was timed and marked so it should at least start even if a bit lumpy

'It should start' is the fanfare of my nightmares at this point - she may yet become an external combustion engine if I can't keep my patience in check hahah

[stuart bowes]

picture sharing guide here: https://www.theminif...-tmf/?p=3772558

 

best of luck getting it working !