47 replies to this topic

[TheFunkyGibbon]

Well....Kwik-Fit got back to me today.

They've been on to VOSA and they've said that the mini is to be tested as a 'CAT car'. Hence 0.3% emisions....Somehow I think the facts may have been lost somewhere....

So it's down to me to raise a complaint to VOSA...they'll then contact Kwik Fit, then I can start chasing up my refund!!

If anyone has any advice on things to put on the form to make sure VOSA are clear on my point of view please give me a shout.

Cheers,

FG.

(P.S. I hate garages!!)

[miniboo]

wsell this is what it says in the MOT manual
http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_730.htm

[TheFunkyGibbon]

The MOT manual refers to a flow chart on page 5, has anyone got a copy of this chart knocking around??? I can't find a copy on-line. I think this is the flow chart that will show that the mini should be tested to 3.5% limits...


Cheers for any help...

[TheFunkyGibbon]

Just found this in the MOT manual....shall be quoting the section number on the VOSA complaint form tomorrow:

Regulations do not require vehicles to achieve CO or HC readings below the original capability of the engine when new. A very few vehicles may never have been able to meet the MOT limits.
Where a vehicle owner claims that this is the case, and has sound supporting evidence (eg a letter from the vehicle manufacturer)' the vehicle shuld be considered exempt from the CO and HC emission requirements.

[Sprocket]

Right, i've looked in the ROVER tech data (new CD i got last week for my birthday, thanks to my lovely wife) and there is some good news and some bad news.


Carb engines have engine numbers 12A2BG03 and a Co emissions of 0.3 to 1.5%

Injection engines have engine numbers 12A2DF75 low compression, 12A2EF77 high compression and a Co emissions of 0.5% max

Like I originaly said, its all down to the engine numbers.

If its not got a cat it might be difficult to get the emissions down that low???


I can print this off and you can have it for your information.

Its not all good news but its a whole lot better than what youve been told. What is your engine number??

[TNMotors]

there should be no arguments here the emmisions have to be tested on the age of the engine not the car!We run a garage and tobys brother is an MOT tester.Later emmisions limit is 0.3% but earlier is 3.5% which your car would pass.We have had this problem with a local MOT station who would not pass a N reg vauxhall combo van as it had a K reg engine and was never going to get down to 0.3%.We told them to....well you can imagine and took it to tobys brother who has only passed his MOT test a few months ago so knows all the up to date rules and it passed with flying colours!!Keep trying for a refund and in the meantime take it to a garage that knows what they are talking about!

Edited by TNMotors, 14 December 2006 - 01:01 AM.

[mini93]

oh if a garage replaces anything on your car the old parts are legaly your property (minus parts which are surplussed) you can ask for them back, say if crappy fit said your disks were worn and you didnt believe them you can take the disks back and inspect them claim the money back and keep the disks they changed...free i knew the "essential working practices" lessons in college were usefull for somthing

[TheFunkyGibbon]

My engine # is 12A2BG03....

KwikS*it have been back onto me today to tell me that they may have made a mistake & asked if I can nip in to discuss what to do next....I'll let you know how it goes...

[Jammy]

Any update on this?

[Retro_10s]

yeah i'd be interested to see what comes of this.....

[Matt]

same as..

kwikfit replaced my exhaust 9 times.... twice with a stainless steel exhaust because it kept blowing... took it to another garage and it never had a problem again

[overboost]

I run an MOT station, personally I would take it somewhere else or at least ask elsewhere for oppinions. Kwik Fit are semi-trained monkeys. If the cats been removed, then simply re-fit it for the test, otherwise you'll have to find a dodgy test station, no ways around it although you could try adjusting the mixture but this process can take forever to get the desired PASS rate.

Fast Idle Test:

RPM : Maximum allowed limit is 3000
CO : Maxiumum allowed limit is 0.200
HC : Maximum allowed limit is 200
Lambda reading : Maximum allowed limit is 1.030

Natural Idle Test:

RPM : Maximum allowed limit is 1500
CO : Maximum allowed limit is 0.300

0.300 is the legal requirement to pass.

Hope that helps....

Edited by overboost, 21 December 2006 - 01:13 PM.

[The Matt]

Right, i've looked in the ROVER tech data (new CD i got last week for my birthday, thanks to my lovely wife) and there is some good news and some bad news.........

...............Carb engines have engine numbers 12A2BG03 and a Co emissions of 0.3 to 1.5%........

...........
Fast Idle Test:

RPM : Maximum allowed limit is 3000
CO : Maxiumum allowed limit is 0.200
HC : Maximum allowed limit is 200
Lambda reading : Maximum allowed limit is 1.030

Natural Idle Test:

RPM : Maximum allowed limit is 1500
CO : Maximum allowed limit is 0.300

0.300 is the legal requirement to pass.

Hope that helps....

The legal requirement is based upon whichever is oldest, engine or vehicle. If a '93 Mini is fitted with a '91 engine, then it is tested to '91 emissions criteria. The emissions data that MS has posted (original technical specification of the engine) and the engine number for the car tested, should be on the database at the testing station.

The gas analysers have an inbuilt database, which is why you have to input the engine number of the vehicle at the start of the emissions test (for vehicles from '92 onwards). If the engine is listed in that database, then surely it should set the gas analyser to test to the original specification of the engine? An MOT regulation cannot impose retrospective requirements upon a vehicle (cannot require a lower CO₂ reading than original specification). If the engine number is not listed within the database, then the tester must carry out a non-cat test, no???

With that engine number, it should be tested as a non-cat car, as the database should tell them that the pass/fail criteria are a CO₂ of <3.5% and a HC of <1200 parts per million, surely???

Edited by mini mad me, 21 December 2006 - 02:23 PM.

[overboost]

If in doubt, contact VOSA on 0845 600 5977 or www.direct.gov.uk for more details.

[Sprocket]

Id like to see you try and get any engine with a carb, and cat, through a 0.3%max emissions test and still run correctly.

********, i just spent 1/2 an hour typing a whole load of stuff and binned it!!!!

Frankly this is down to the missinterpretation of YOU Mot testers. I provided Clear and concise information that is in official Rover print.

This information proves that a carb equiped Mini with engine number 12A2BG03 CANNOT pas 0.3% max emissions limit irrespective of uk legislation. This is all the information that is required. The 'cat' test is , in this case, the wrong test and a BET should be carried out.

The tester should use their best judgement as to which test is the right one for the engine they are testing, not the computers decision.

I have no respect for any MOT tetser, that says a 94 L Carb mini with engine number as stated has to pass an emissions test of less than 0.3%you have not used your best judgement. It never has and never will. How can you fail a vehicle in this instance? Thats how it left the factory and no one is obliged to modify their engine to enable it to pass a lower limit. That is unethical.

FG I really would like to know how you are getting on with this