15 replies to this topic

[USA-Fin]

I'm unclear about how registration works in the UK.
In the USA, each car has a "certificate of title" that registers it to an owner. When you sell a car, you sign the title over to the new owner. The new owner takes the title to the county tag agent and gets a new title with their name and address printed on it. The car must have a Vehicle Identification Number plate (VIN plate) on the firewall that matches the title.
A Mini must be 25 years old or older to import into the USA. I see many Minis for sale the state "1980/updated to 1996", which seems to be a 1996 Mini that has had the VIN plate and title transfered to it from an older Mini.
VIN swapping (aka: revinning) is illeagle in the USA, but it appears that nobody knows the difference between a late modle MINI and one that is 25 years old.
How are Mini's registered in the UK? Is swapping VIN plates illegal in the UK?

Thanks,
Jim

[miniboo]

yep VIN plate swapping is illegal here in the UK too. it is known as "ringing".

[Bungle]

registration in the USA sounds much the same is here in the UK

when you read "1980/updated to 1996"

it means someones swaped the VIN plate from a 1980 m ini and stuck it on a 1996

this is very illegal

[liam_italian]

Yup the in the Uk if your car is discovered to be a "Ringer" It will post probably result in your car begin confiscated and destroyed!!!!

[THE ANORAK]

why can nobody tell the difference between an early and late mini in the US?

can you not read books, are you all blind ???

do some research, the differences are endless, anyone should be able to tell the age of a mini to within ten years if you know your stuff.

[vasi]

Hi Fin.

In the UK, all cars have a similar thing to a Cetificate of Title. Although such a notion in English law would not suffice, because that name implies legal ownership. Over here, the Vehicle Registration Document (V5) ties the VIN and the Vehicle registration number (VRN) to a registered keeper. The registered keeper must notify the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) of any transfer of keeper, be it to another person, company, a scrap metal dealer / breaker, or to export.

Please bear in mind that the legal owner, ie title of ownership, is not necessarily the registered keeper (V5 holder).

Ringing occurs in many forms, the most common in your experience being, as you describe, tranferring VIN plates and VRN plates to a later vehicle. This is a quite straightforward process to complete as the newer car can easily be cleared as transferred to a new owner by claiming that the V5C (transfer part of the V5) was lost in post.

Hope this helps clarify.

Edited by vasi, 11 December 2006 - 10:49 PM.

[minidan]

just to clarify, how can someone tell if a mini is a ringer if the vin plate and number plate have been transfered over to a mini of similar age?

[THE ANORAK]

all shells should have the VIN number stamped on the scuttle panel, down in the section that the back edge of the bonnet sits in.

go and take a look at your car !!!!

[minidan]

i will have a look next time i can...

i didnt know minis had this

[RacingGreen]

all shells should have the VIN number stamped on the scuttle panel, down in the section that the back edge of the bonnet sits in.

go and take a look at your car !!!!

If they've had the scuttle replaced at some point (which a fair few have), then it wont be.

Edited by RacingGreen, 11 December 2006 - 11:19 PM.

[minidan]

sorry to be a pain , but what if (for ex.) this panel was rotten and had to be replaced.... would this make any difference?

(lol im not trying to create a 'legal' ringer ,i just wanted to know whats what)

Edited by minidan, 11 December 2006 - 11:23 PM.

[THE ANORAK]

yes, this is a fair point but if the vin number is not there then start asking questions.

why is it not there ?? just say something like "oh, i see the scuttle has been replaced" without going into details as to why you know this and see what the reaction is.

it may be that it was rotten and has been fixed with genuine reason, but if there is doubt, walk away, there are plenty more minis in the sea.

a friend of mine bought a 1970's mini for spares and when we started to strip it down i knew in about 10 minutes that it was made between 1984 and 1986 !!! the VIN had been ground out of the scuttle panel and the holes for the original vin plate were still in the inner wing.

the moral is... educate yourself and be careful.

[USA-Fin]

Thanks you all for all the good information.
As far as folks over here not being able to teel the differences in the different years, it must just be the customs officials.
I wish we could have the later model Minis (legally) over here. A person could make a fortune importing them.

Jim

[Guess-Works.com]

yes, this is a fair point but if the vin number is not there then start asking questions.

why is it not there ?? just say something like "oh, i see the scuttle has been replaced" without going into details as to why you know this and see what the reaction is.

it may be that it was rotten and has been fixed with genuine reason, but if there is doubt, walk away, there are plenty more minis in the sea.

a friend of mine bought a 1970's mini for spares and when we started to strip it down i knew in about 10 minutes that it was made between 1984 and 1986 !!! the VIN had been ground out of the scuttle panel and the holes for the original vin plate were still in the inner wing.

the moral is... educate yourself and be careful.

That one has now duely been cut up and recycled

There are reputed other places which the vin is etched, not only on the scuttle, especially on parts which are not easily replaced.. however I'm yet to find one in the places I know off... but maybe the cars have just not been new enough...

[Guess-Works.com]

Thanks you all for all the good information.
As far as folks over here not being able to teel the differences in the different years, it must just be the customs officials.
I wish we could have the later model Minis (legally) over here. A person could make a fortune importing them.

Jim

They do already... make a fortune...