10 replies to this topic

[whawes]

I've removed the (inertia type) starter motor from my 1972 Clubman GT, which is inscribed as follows on the casing:

LUCAS
M35J -> 12V
25345A 06 81

The second hand item I've obtained to replace it has the following on the case:

LUCAS
M35J -> 12V
25147E 9 77

There is one major difference between these two parts, which is that my current one has 10 teeth, whereas the replacement has only nine!

I was always under the impression that there are only two types of starter motor for a Mini - the intertia type with separate solenoid as fitted to pre-1986 cars and the later pre-engaged type with integrated solenoid. My Haynes manual only specifies "Lucas M35J" as the correct part for the car. According to the casing these are both M35J items, but I'm curious as to why my existing one has an extra tooth (not to mention dubious about fitting it to the car!).

So, why does mine have 10? Aftermarket flywheel? Could an incorrect starter motor be currently fitted (the car has started with the existing one since I've had it, but it now appears to stick)?

More importantly, is the replacement going to be interchangeable?

The items I've seen at first hand at my local motor factors all have 9 teeth, so I'm not even clear where you'd obtain one with 10...

I'd be very grateful for any advice.

Will

[minislapper]

Do not fit the new one to the car or it will chew up your ring gear. Can't answer your question about why you have an extra tooth. You could try putting up a wanted post and see if anyone has a replacement for you.

[whawes]

Do not fit the new one to the car or it will chew up your ring gear. Can't answer your question about why you have an extra tooth. You could try putting up a wanted post and see if anyone has a replacement for you.

Thanks for the advice, I will try a Wanted post.

Could still do with knowing why my starter motor has 10 teeth though, hopefully there is a Mini expert out there that can tell me...

[Big_Adam]

I'd go back were I got it and ask questions. Hell I got uptight when I saw my new starter motor didn't have a little cap on the end of it.

[whawes]

I'd go back were I got it and ask questions. Hell I got uptight when I saw my new starter motor didn't have a little cap on the end of it.

No worries there, it's from a mate who has a load of Mini spares so didn't cost anything and can be returned!

That said there is nothing wrong with the replacement, like every other inertia-type Mini starter motor I've seen, it has 9 teeth.

If anything my existing one is weird, because it has 10 teeth. I don't really want to have to pay silly money for an identical replacement (I've only found one stockist of 25147E starter motors and they want £108!), so it would be really good if someone knows e.g. which car/derivative the 25147E part was fitted to, so I could try to source one from a scrappy.

Edited by whawes, 27 December 2006 - 08:35 PM.

[minislapper]

New starters are not cheap items. If you don't have the full history for the engine then there is nothing to say that it is 'standard' and, hence, why there are a different number of teeth on both starters.

[whawes]

New starters are not cheap items. If you don't have the full history for the engine then there is nothing to say that it is 'standard' and, hence, why there are a different number of teeth on both starters.

The 9 tooth items actually aren't too bad - £35 on a non-exchange basis - but unfortunately the starter with 10 teeth seems to be somewhat more expensive

Just to confirm, is it absolutely, totally out of the question that the starter motors are interchangeable, allowing for different tooth profiles as well as just the number of teeth? I've seen the odd forum/newsgroup post that skirts around this kind of question without definitively concluding one way or the other. I'm not after a guarantee that fitting one with 9 teeth won't do any damage - as mentioned earlier, chances are it will - just curious as to whether there is any possibility the existing one could be sticking due to having to many teeth, e.g. being an incorrect part in the first place.

What do flywheels cost, incidentally?

[minislapper]

Never had to buy a new flywheel so wouldn't know! If the starter was working fine but has just started to stick, I would imagine it is the correct one and it is just failing due to old age. If you try to fit a starter with the wrong amount of teeth, you will know about it. It will make one hell of a racket in the first place. I have also seen the remnants of teeth inside the casing due to a wrongly fitted starter too. Do you know the history of the engine?

[Big_Adam]

http://www.woodauto....UCAS&Ref=25105X

£58 squid. Still exspensive but its outright sale for what you need. Or you could just recondition your one.

[koss]

Can you not swap the pinion

[whawes]

Thanks for the suggestions all

Yes I could probably change the pinion without much difficulty, but my main concern is getting to the bottom of why the unusual 10-tooth starter is fitted, particularly bearing in mind this starter motor jams occasionally too.

I don't have much in the way of history for the car as it was DIY built/maintained by the previous owner and his dad. I've been in touch with them and they say the flywheel is definitely the original one from the donor 1275 Mini engine. The starter was sourced separately and he thought he had sourced a normal Mini item (I guess he only looked at the M35J on the casing and not the other characters). This would seem to indicate that the wrong part is probably fitted at present.

From what I can see, the ring gear looks in good condition so it seems not to have damaged anything.

Weird...