13 replies to this topic

[DTXDave]

I recently got my 998 City E back from a garage that finished off my restoration with a paint job and got the car through an MOT. I gave the car to the garage with a new fuel line installed but with the fuel tank lose in the boot and no hose from the front of the pipe to the fuel pump as it had perished. I gave them the old one with clips so they could source a new part. I also told them that there was a lot of pipe at the front so they had to cut it back. Anyway I've now discovered that they did not cut the pipe to size, they just stuck a rubber pipe on it, bent it at a right angle and connected the other end onto the fuel pump. So you have the fuel pipe coming up into the engine bay, making a right angle about the height of the carb, then a rubber pipe going down to the fuel pump and no clips at all, not even a jubilee clip!

I've found no leaks even though the cars fuel consumption is excessive now and I've tuned the engine using a Colortune kit. Its running lean and has no oomph but it still gets through fuel faster than it was before.

My questions:

How can I cut the pipe (fuel line) to size with fuel in it? I'm going to get a proper sized braided fuel pipe with clips because I don't know if they have used a hose rated for fuel. I want to crop the fuel line back so it is lower in the engine bay but the tank is half full and I don't have a big enough container so I was wondering how I can cut the line back safely.

What can cause excessive fuel consumption in a Mini other than a leak as I have not found one and I believe that I have tuned the engine?


Thanks guys for any advise. I cannot return the car to the garage as it was a mates rate deal through a friend with no receipts. You live and learn.

[Dan]

Get a small rotary pipe cutter. They cut clean with no sparks but it's still a tiny bit of a gamble, have a fire extinguisher to hand but it should be fine. Jack the front up and put it on stands to do the work, that will help. If you cut the pipe to lower than the level in the tank you won't be able to stop the fuel pouring out so if the front is jacked up you have more of a chance.

[chriszxr750]

How can I cut the pipe (fuel line) to size with fuel in it? I'm going to get a proper sized braided fuel pipe with clips because I don't know if they have used a hose rated for fuel. I want to crop the fuel line back so it is lower in the engine bay but the tank is half full and I don't have a big enough container so I was wondering how I can cut the line back safely.

What can cause excessive fuel consumption in a Mini other than a leak as I have not found one and I believe that I have tuned the engine?


Thanks guys for any advise. I cannot return the car to the garage as it was a mates rate deal through a friend with no receipts. You live and learn.

firstly to stop the fuel coming out of the cut pipe, is to clamp it at the petrol tank end. you could always jacked the front up so the end your cutting is higher than the tank.

as for cutting the pipe itself, try using a small pipe cutter that some plumbers have, i believe they are fairly cheap to get in halfords.

the rubber hose they used should have fuel or petrol on it to denote what it can be used for.

as for the fuel consumption how bad is it?

i assume that you have check carefully for leaks etc.

anyway hope this helps you, and always remember to take extra care when dealing with petrol!!

[Guess-Works.com]

Just to clarify things...

There is a long solid fuel pipe which stretches the length of the vehicle, this terminates half way up the bulkhead with a right angled bend which should be approximately inline with the fuel pump on the back of the engine.... these are connected with a small length of flexible pipe... out of the other end of the fuel pump, there is another short flexible link to another solid (metal) fuel pipe which takes the fuel from the pump round the back of the exhaust to the carb, which again is connected to the carb with a short length of flexible pipe..

orginally there would be a clip which is connected into a square hole in the cross member ( bulkhead ) which holds the metal pipe away from the exhaust, but it's very common that this is missing..

Under no circumstances replace the metal pipe going around the exhaust with anything other than another metal pipe as this could end up in a small disaster and a burnt out mini...

So...

Which pipe is it you want to replace ?

[DTXDave]

Thanks everyone for your advice. I went to my local motor factors today on my way home for a chat and parts and got the same advice.

The pipe that runs under the car comes in to the engine bay and is too long (and strangely enough already covered in verdigris after a month!). I need to cut about 7 inches off it. The rubber pipe that goes from the (copper) fuel line to the fuel pump is also too long. I've taken it off and there is no writing on it so I do not know if it is rated for fuel so probably safer to replace it (anyone know the exact size I need i.e apertrure in the middle and thickness of pipe?). I have jubilee and petrol line clips to put on.

The plan is to try and get a pipe cutter as recommended above this week. If I cant get one I'll continue using the car anyway so there is less fuel in the tank by the weekend. Then I'll clamp/drain the rubber pipe from the petrol tank at the back then remove it from the copper fuel line and empty any fuel in the copper pipe into a suitable container. Then I'll jack the front of the car up on an axel stand and blow through the front of the pipe in the engine bay to clear out any fuel. I'll then leave it overnight.

Next day I'll cut the pipe to size with a cutter if I have one otherwise I'll use a junior hacksaw (with a fire extinguisher nearby although should be ok as any fuel left should have evaporated overnight). Then I'll connect everything back up and hopefully all will be well.

As for the fuel consumption. The car has been fine for the last 700 miles but then I filled it up half-way home after 100 miles of my journey and it used half a tank to travel 60 miles. It usually gets twice that distance on half a tank. I can't see any leaks or notice any change in engine noise but the needle kept falling and usually you cannot notice it moving.

To clarify: I wont be touching the metal pipe on the other end of the fuel pump but I know that one that you mean GuessWorks.

[Dan]

You need to be careful yes but don't panic about it! If you leave it overnight the fuel will only run back into the line that you've so carefully emptied anyway, even if it's clamped it'll run through slowy sometimes. Fuel is very thin and runny, it's also bad for the hose to leave it clamped for a long period of time. It should be impossible to get a spark from cutting copper but you never know so it is wise to have the extinguisher. If you do use a hacksaw you should debur the end of the pipe. Any small chunks of copper swarf will be bad for the rest of the hoses and rubber parts they will meet when they break off and drift into the fuel system. A pipe cutter is best, small ones are only a couple of quid.

I forget about clamping lines because when I assemble Mini tanks I install fuel taps right by the tank outlet!

[Mini Man Dan]

Under no circumstances replace the metal pipe going around the exhaust with anything other than another metal pipe as this could end up in a small disaster and a burnt out mini...

I have a black flexi pipe going around the exhaust which was on when i bought the car so should i change this? If i do need to change this what pipe should i use?

[Guess-Works.com]

The pipe which goes round the back of the exhaust needs to be heat proof

The fuel line for reference is 1/4" in diameter as std, or 5/16" on those fuel hungry motors.

[DTXDave]

I have cut the pipe to size and replaced the rubber hose.

I've written up what I did: http://www.detoxcomi...ini/mini15.html

I've included some photos.

[miniboo]

nice work looks much neater

[Sprocket]

Copper fuel line??

[DTXDave]

Copper fuel line??

It looks like copper. I asked for a fuel line about 6 months ago at a motor factors and they sold me 12ft of this stuff that looks like copper. It has verdigris on it so I assume its copper. You've got me a little concerned. Should I change the fuel line? What do you use? The guy at motor factors say everyone uses they stuff he sold because its more bendable.

[DTXDave]

Copper fuel line??

It looks like copper. I asked for a fuel line about 6 months ago at a motor factors and they sold me 12ft of this stuff that looks like copper. It has verdigris on it so I assume its copper. You've got me a little concerned. Should I change the fuel line? What do you use? The guy at motor factors say everyone uses they stuff he sold because its more bendable.

I found this online: "Fuel lines, which connect all the units of the fuel system, are usually made of rolled steel or, sometimes, of drawn copper. Steel tubing, when used for fuel lines, is generally rust proofed by being copper or zinc plated. Fuel lines are placed as far away from exhaust pipes, mufflers, and manifolds as possible, so that excessive heat will not cause vapor lock. They are attached to the frame, the engine, and other units in such a way that the effect of vibration is minimal, and so that they are free of contact with sharp edges which might cause wear. In areas where there is a lot of movement, as between the car`s frame and rubber-mounted engine, short lengths of gasoline resistant flexible tubing are used."

It looks likes some lines have treated copper in them I guess to make them more plyable as steal is pretty hard to bend. I have copper brake lines and they are a completely different colour and easier to bend. My fuel line is a light brown steel colour and only just bendable. Other web sites talk about copper fuel lines so I guess it is not uncommon.

[Sprocket]

It may be Kunifer, in which case its fine.

However, if it is a pure grade copper, this is all i was conserned about - The fuel passing through the copper line disolves a tiny amount of copper. This then plates out over a prolonged period ( note the operative word being prolonged) at the coldest point, which happens to be the jet and needle in the carb, thus affecting the performance of the carb.

I'll be very honest and say that if it is a pure grade copper, then leave it and dont wory about it, its gonna take years for any sort of effects to happen. It is far more prominant in ijnjection engines as the injector orifaces are very small to start.

This should be considered though when buying in the first place, now that you know.

Like i said, its not worth worrying about, certainly not worth ripping it out and replacing it, after all it may well be Kunifer, which is a Nickle Copper alloy, though i am sure it shouldnt corrode as it is. The salty roads help corrossion, so what your seeing isnt realy a surprise to me.

http://en.wikipedia....tal_deactivator

As you were soldier

Edited by Mini Sprocket, 14 January 2007 - 12:07 AM.