8 replies to this topic

[ErnstBlofeld]

Here's a strange question. Did Standard Triumph copy the A series?

Some stuff:

The A series started life as an 803 cc unit and was later enlarged to 948cc.

The Triumph SC engine (Standard Eight to Spitfire 1500) started life as an 803cc unit and was later enlarged to 948cc.

The bore/stroke dimensions of the 803 and 948 SC and A series were exactly the same - surely no coincidence?

I read somewhere - I think it was Graham Robson's book "Triumph: From Tri Car to Acclaim" - something along the lines that the SC may have been heavily influenced by the A-series. But I may be wrong.

Copying other folk's work wasn't exactly unknown in the UK industry: didn't Morris (under Leonard Lord) copy the prewar 918cc Ford sidevalve engine, and Austin (under Leonard Lord) copy a Bedford truck engine, the result being the 4-litre "Princess" six? On the other hand, I believe that both units debuted in 1952.

I read somewhere that the block dimensions of the A-series and the Triumph SC engine are similar, but Triumph were able to bore out later versions of their engine to 75mm or thereabouts. I think the Triumph unit was available as 803cc, 948cc, 1147cc, 1296cc, and 1497cc and six-cylinder units in capacities of 2-litres and 2.5 litres.

However, as later Spitfires etc. used an eight port head, I wonder if an A series/SC hybrid eight port unit could be cobbled together, or even if that's already been looked at in the Mini's long history?

[JA1987]

Is this a project or multiple questions?

[tino]

They are a first time poster.

I don't know much about the earlier Triumph engine's im afraid but I think i'll now look into it a bit more.

[Bungle]

they all came of of BMC

[Guess-Works.com]

I think that's like saying the A series and the B series engine are 'similar', which pretty much any pushrod engine will be... as for compatability... doubt it..

[Retro_10s]

I think that's like saying the A series and the B series engine are 'similar', which pretty much any pushrod engine will be... as for compatability... doubt it..

yup, anyone who's looked at an Old Ford Endura engine will notice it's virtually the same as our beloved 'A'

[ErnstBlofeld]

Yes, but the point I was trying to make is that the Triumph SC may have may have been some kind of copy of the A-series. IIRC Graham Robson hinted at it and the fact that early versions of both engines shared the same bore/stroke dimensions is a bit on the coincidental side of things.

Both were long stroke units and although that doesn't surprise me in BMC's case - BMC being
BMC - Standard Triumph was usually more adventurous in terms of engine design: fuel injection,
the slant four OHC Dolomite 8v and 16v engines, not to mention the Stag V8. In comparison to the BMC and Triumph units Ford's 1959 Anglia engine was massively oversquare.

Furthermore, I think it was in 1948 that the Treasury repealed the old RAC horsepower tax which used bore size as part of a taxation formula the upshot of which was that pre-war British engines were narrow of bore and long of stroke.

If Triumph needn't have made the SC engine a long stroke engine like the A-series, so did they copy the Austin unit? Copying other people's hardware was not unknown in the British motor industry and Standard Triumph had already half-inched the wet-liner Vanguard/TR2-4/Massey Ferguson unit from a Citroen design.

[Sprocket]

Not being funny mate, but the the best people to ask this, are BMH at Gaydon.

Edited by Mini Sprocket, 14 January 2007 - 06:17 PM.

[Jammy]

Moved.