help needed i have got my car in the garage at the moment and waiting for this part.... but need the car tomorrow night does anyone know where i can get a hold of 1 of these or purchase 1...
not too sure myself if it is just the wire that i need its just what the mechanic has said or could this wire be replaced by changing to a non ballast coil and running a new 12v wire from the ignition to the coil?????
Ballast Resistor Wire
Started by
daryl_crossley
, Nov 05 2007 04:31 PM
28 replies to this topic
#1
daryl_crossley
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Posted 05 November 2007 - 04:31 PM
#2
Guess-Works.com
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Posted 05 November 2007 - 04:34 PM
I'm actually surprised you can get the wire...
As suggested, usual course of action is to remove the balast coil, put a 12v one in and run a plain wire from the ignition live terminal on the fuse box to the new coil.
As suggested, usual course of action is to remove the balast coil, put a 12v one in and run a plain wire from the ignition live terminal on the fuse box to the new coil.
#3
GreaseMonkey
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Posted 05 November 2007 - 04:36 PM
You can use a non ballast coil and run a 12v wire from the fusebox. Make you test the terminal on the fusebox when the ignition is on to check it is producing only 12 volts.
But make sure you or the mechanic does not use a ballast coil with a 12v feed going into it or else your points might melt together !
But make sure you or the mechanic does not use a ballast coil with a 12v feed going into it or else your points might melt together !
#4
dklawson
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Posted 05 November 2007 - 05:35 PM
All the advice above is correct.
However, there are other options.
To install a ballast coil where one was not used before...
1) Run a new pink wire from the ignition switch to the coil. Contact AutoSparks, they should have the wire.
2) Run a new REGULAR wire from the ignition switch. Stop short of the coil and wire in SERIES with the coil an aftermarket ballast resistor. Check your auto parts supplier, these should be readily available.
3) Replace the ballast coil with a standard one and supply it with a SWITCHED +12v supply as stated above.
However, there are other options.
To install a ballast coil where one was not used before...
1) Run a new pink wire from the ignition switch to the coil. Contact AutoSparks, they should have the wire.
2) Run a new REGULAR wire from the ignition switch. Stop short of the coil and wire in SERIES with the coil an aftermarket ballast resistor. Check your auto parts supplier, these should be readily available.
3) Replace the ballast coil with a standard one and supply it with a SWITCHED +12v supply as stated above.
#5
daryl_crossley
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Posted 05 November 2007 - 05:49 PM
i have rung my mechanic and asked him if he could do this on the car but he has said that this would melt the points....
would it be possible to put an electronic ignition on to resolve the problem
would it be possible to put an electronic ignition on to resolve the problem
#6
Jammy
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Posted 05 November 2007 - 05:56 PM
Ignoring your mechanic you have two options as outlined above.
Use the ballast coil and the ballast wiring.
Use a 12V coil and run a new 12V feed from the ignition live terminal of the fuse box.
Use the ballast coil and the ballast wiring.
Use a 12V coil and run a new 12V feed from the ignition live terminal of the fuse box.
#7
daryl_crossley
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Posted 05 November 2007 - 05:59 PM
ok will try it and replace the coil with a lucas sports coil and will the points be ok with 12v going through them
#8
daryl_crossley
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Posted 06 November 2007 - 10:58 PM
ok got the car back tonight with a £180 bill and got 4 miles down the road and the same has happened again... willl be ringing the garage in the morning rather unhappy
will have to convert to the old 12v system and see if this solves it
will have to convert to the old 12v system and see if this solves it
#9
Jammy
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Posted 06 November 2007 - 11:02 PM
Some alarm is ringing in my head about sports coils, but I can't remember if its with ballast systems or eleccy systems...?
#10
Dan
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Posted 06 November 2007 - 11:31 PM
What is the part number of the coil you have fitted? A genuine Lucas, ballasted Sports Coil is a fairly new design of part as they have not made one until recently. If it is an older Sports Coil it won't be compatible with ballasted ignition. I'm not sure from what you've said if you are currently running the ballast or not. Points are not ballasted, only the coil is fussy about voltage.
What exactly is the problem with the car?
What exactly is the problem with the car?
#11
Ethel
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Posted 07 November 2007 - 12:17 AM
I wish someone would pay me £180 for fitting a new coil!
#12
dklawson
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Posted 07 November 2007 - 12:43 AM
You always seem to hear about problems with Lucas sports coils. Buy a Bosch Blue and be happy for years to come.
Let's talk for a moment about coils. The so-called sports or high-performance coils have higher voltages. What does this mean to you and your engine? Not much. The spark plug doesn't perform differently with a high-voltage or performance coil... not until you change other things.
The spark plug gap controls what the spark voltage is, not the coil. As soon as the breakdown voltage across the spark plug gap is reached you get a spark. The coil's ability to supply higher voltage doesn't matter. Once the spark starts, the voltage doesn't go higher and the spark doesn't get hotter. How do you increase this voltage to get a hotter spark? You increase the spark plug gap. What happens if you do this with a standard ignition system with points? The coil runs out of oomph. You typically can't increase the spark plug gap significantly to take advantage of the higher coil voltage until you switch to an electronic ignition. The way dwell is handled by the electronics allows you to "get more" out of the coil.
So, why pay more for a high-performance Lucas sports coil if you don't have electronic ignition and wider plug gaps? Sports coils aren't known for reliability and they're expensive. Buy a Bosch Blue which will have more than adequate power, will cost less, and will run for years.
Returning to the point of the thread and to Dan's question to you... so what is the car doing exactly?
Let's talk for a moment about coils. The so-called sports or high-performance coils have higher voltages. What does this mean to you and your engine? Not much. The spark plug doesn't perform differently with a high-voltage or performance coil... not until you change other things.
The spark plug gap controls what the spark voltage is, not the coil. As soon as the breakdown voltage across the spark plug gap is reached you get a spark. The coil's ability to supply higher voltage doesn't matter. Once the spark starts, the voltage doesn't go higher and the spark doesn't get hotter. How do you increase this voltage to get a hotter spark? You increase the spark plug gap. What happens if you do this with a standard ignition system with points? The coil runs out of oomph. You typically can't increase the spark plug gap significantly to take advantage of the higher coil voltage until you switch to an electronic ignition. The way dwell is handled by the electronics allows you to "get more" out of the coil.
So, why pay more for a high-performance Lucas sports coil if you don't have electronic ignition and wider plug gaps? Sports coils aren't known for reliability and they're expensive. Buy a Bosch Blue which will have more than adequate power, will cost less, and will run for years.
Returning to the point of the thread and to Dan's question to you... so what is the car doing exactly?
#13
daryl_crossley
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Posted 07 November 2007 - 11:20 AM
the car is a ballasted system with a lumenition coil on(1 month old)... the car just keeps burning the points out rather quickly... had resistor wire changed and a seperate ballast on there.... it runs great until it gets warmish and then chugs away and enginbe dies but if i leave it 2 minutes it will restart and drive great for half a mile or so.... managed to limp two miles home last night in around 30 minutes but the points are well melted again and cant get intouch with the mechanic.....??????
#14
dklawson
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Posted 07 November 2007 - 01:27 PM
If you have a volt/ohm multi-meter there are things you can check yourself to make sure the coil and its wiring are what you need.
Mark and disconnect the wires from the low tension terminals on the coil. Set the meter to measure ohms and place its leads across the two low tension terminals and record the resistance value. (Remove the meter from the coil and hold its leads together just to make sure that when they contact each other they say "0 ohms" or close to it. Let us know if the meter doesn't go to zero.) If the coil resistance you measured is CLOSE to 3 ohms, you have a non-ballast coil. If you measure between 1.2 and 2.0 ohms, you have a ballast coil and you need a ballast resistor (or resistor wire).
Now that you know the coil type you need to measure the voltage on the coil. Place the low tension wires back on the coil terminals. Remove the dizzy cap and look at the points. Make sure they are closed. Place a coin between the points if they're open. Turn on the ignition switch and set your meter to measure volts. Place one meter lead on the coil (+) terminal (the one coming from the ignition switch). Place the other meter lead on a good earthing point... like a head stud. For a standard ignition you should measure battery voltage... somewhere between 12-13.5V. If you have a working ballast ignition system you will measure between 6-9V. Remove the coin from between the points if you had to use one.
Make sure you've got a ballast coil for use on the ballast ignition system and do not use a ballast ignition coil if you have +12V on coil (+) in the measurements above.
Go back and look at the wiring. You said you've got a ballast ignition system, so make sure the ballast connection to the starter solenoid is correct. On a ballast ignition system there should be a wire from the coil (+) to a fourth terminal on the starter solenoid. If a previous owner has connected this to the wrong terminal you may find this wire is always "hot" with 12V. That could cause the coil and points to overheat.
Lastly, make sure you have a good condenser in there with the points. Replace it if at all in doubt. If the condenser is bad or doesn't have a good ground connection the points will wear out very quickly. Just to be clear... the body of the condenser has an earth connection through its mounting bracket. The wire coming off the condenser is connected to the moving arm of the points. If you earth the wire instead of putting it on the moving arm of the points it is not in the circuit at all.
EDIT: As a footnote to my previous post... the Bosch Blue is a standard 12V coil. I THINK (but am probably wrong) that the Bosch Red coil is for ballast ignitions.
Mark and disconnect the wires from the low tension terminals on the coil. Set the meter to measure ohms and place its leads across the two low tension terminals and record the resistance value. (Remove the meter from the coil and hold its leads together just to make sure that when they contact each other they say "0 ohms" or close to it. Let us know if the meter doesn't go to zero.) If the coil resistance you measured is CLOSE to 3 ohms, you have a non-ballast coil. If you measure between 1.2 and 2.0 ohms, you have a ballast coil and you need a ballast resistor (or resistor wire).
Now that you know the coil type you need to measure the voltage on the coil. Place the low tension wires back on the coil terminals. Remove the dizzy cap and look at the points. Make sure they are closed. Place a coin between the points if they're open. Turn on the ignition switch and set your meter to measure volts. Place one meter lead on the coil (+) terminal (the one coming from the ignition switch). Place the other meter lead on a good earthing point... like a head stud. For a standard ignition you should measure battery voltage... somewhere between 12-13.5V. If you have a working ballast ignition system you will measure between 6-9V. Remove the coin from between the points if you had to use one.
Make sure you've got a ballast coil for use on the ballast ignition system and do not use a ballast ignition coil if you have +12V on coil (+) in the measurements above.
Go back and look at the wiring. You said you've got a ballast ignition system, so make sure the ballast connection to the starter solenoid is correct. On a ballast ignition system there should be a wire from the coil (+) to a fourth terminal on the starter solenoid. If a previous owner has connected this to the wrong terminal you may find this wire is always "hot" with 12V. That could cause the coil and points to overheat.
Lastly, make sure you have a good condenser in there with the points. Replace it if at all in doubt. If the condenser is bad or doesn't have a good ground connection the points will wear out very quickly. Just to be clear... the body of the condenser has an earth connection through its mounting bracket. The wire coming off the condenser is connected to the moving arm of the points. If you earth the wire instead of putting it on the moving arm of the points it is not in the circuit at all.
EDIT: As a footnote to my previous post... the Bosch Blue is a standard 12V coil. I THINK (but am probably wrong) that the Bosch Red coil is for ballast ignitions.
Edited by dklawson, 07 November 2007 - 01:28 PM.
#15
mineeeeee
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Posted 07 November 2007 - 01:51 PM
Daryl,bear in mind i have been under your bonnet already and seen the accident of a wiring loom that lives in there i think you really only have the option to get a new 12v coil and rewire the ignition curcuit to suit.
The only problem i can see with this is you already paid a guy to do the work so i dont know how you stand now about getting something back or getting him to do what you want as opposed to him telling you what he is going to do.
Keep me informed
Ian
Edit
I presume the £180 was for more work than just the ignition fault?
The only problem i can see with this is you already paid a guy to do the work so i dont know how you stand now about getting something back or getting him to do what you want as opposed to him telling you what he is going to do.
Keep me informed
Ian
Edit
I presume the £180 was for more work than just the ignition fault?
Edited by mineeeeee, 07 November 2007 - 01:55 PM.
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