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Warning: Geronimo Cages


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#1 directorydaz

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 12:42 AM

Advice to all mini owners thinking of using Geronimo Cages

Back in January i brought one of there six point cages, i paid for it by paypal so we thought i would have no worries...

5 weeks later the cage arrived all packaged up ready to fit, i had to wait a few days for help to fit it as i didn't want to catch the car, then the fun began!

In short the cage will not fit without being modified, which is not what it says on Geronimo cages website!

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I emailed them with the mail below:

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----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Cc:
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 8:03 PM
Subject: Roll Cage Quality and Fitment


Good Evening Andy

My other half Sonia Riley brought one of your standard cages back in January 2008 and received it last week.

Couple of major points really,

Fitment: There is no way the cage as it has been built will fit a standard mini saloon car without some major modification, I have included some pictures:
With the front hoop in place and following the windscreen pillar so the connecting bars run parallel I assume this is correct?
Rear cage fitted so the floor bars touch the floor inside the rear bins, fitted as far back as it goes, the rear brace bars NEARLY come close to fitting onto the rear wheel arch but roof bars are miles too long
Rear cage fitted so the roof bars NEARLY fit, the floor bars come no where near touching the floor, however the rear brace bars would fit to the wheel arch
Quality: I have to rate your welding skills as poor to mediocre at best with your finished article looking rushed and poorly finished, the cage we have received is no where near ready for paint and will take some time to grind back your messy and poor welds to make this look like a professional job, not something made in a garden shed!

Where do we go from here,

We ordered a professionally built roll cage that takes aprox 30minutes to fit, Details below are direct from your website http://www.geronimoc...co.uk/id15.html

STANDARD SIX POINT CAGE

Our standard six point cage made from 33.7mm CHS tube. These cages can be either bolted or welded in. The roof bars are connected to the front and rear hoops via slide in tube joints. For fitting simply drill through and insert bolt or weld around the seam. Very easy to fit, takes approx 30 minutes. Arrives ready for paint.

DEAL PRICE - 150.00 GBP
This is not what we have received!

This is a formal request to provide us with a Professionally Built Roll cage that will fit without modification in aprox 30mins or our money back, obviously collection and re-delivery will be at your expense as this is no fault of us as the consumer

This email address is checked 10 times a day so feel free to respond or you can call me on 07725 646132

I can see no reason why this matter should take more than 7 days to resolve

Regards

Darren Newton
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Since then we have had communication back, and they have not offered a replacement (i dont think they do a cage that fits!) however they did offer a refund if we return the cage to them at our cost.

Now this didn't seem right to me, as a consumer if you are supplied with something that is not fit for purpose or as described it is the trader responsibility to cover any costs, this includes return postage. I further had this confirmed by Trading Standards!

I then called Geronimo Cages back to explain this and i was told that they do not care what the sales of goods act says, they are not going to cover the cost, they then promptly hung up.

Update:

god help anybody if you do run into any problems with Geronimo Cages!, Geronimo Cages new address which has just appeared on there website seems to be "addressee Unknown" so say the royal mail who have returned a letter we sent recorded delivery. Dam good job we didnt send the cage first.

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We are left with having to chase this matter through trading standards and the legal route, i would strongly advise anybody from dealing with this trader until an actual address can be confirmed at a minimum!

Its not just a matter of returns but what if your cage was to come apart through poor workmanship lets say, and injure your passenger so you need to claim on the traders insurance for poor quality item, but you can not because this company doesn't have a real address!

#2 marvin151173

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 03:53 PM

Thanks for this, i was going to post a thread today asking if anyone had used one of their cages as i was tempted. i'm after a cage that's not FIA approved as it'll be purely aesthetic, i thought geronimo was just the ticket, how wrong i was....

i'll have to do a post about other suppliers of reasonably priced cages instead...

Cheers and good luck with the trading standards...


Marv

#3 Jammy

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 03:55 PM

Rollcages are never a purely aesthetic thing. They are 40kg of metal that can injure and kill. Anything of that sort should be built to a certain standard and used in the correct manner with the correct features around it (bucket seat and full harness, and proper rollcage protection).

#4 Matrix

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 03:59 PM

I also had a problem with them!! paid for door bars... waited weeks and weeks after being told they would be a week max! six weeks later and loads of emails they simply refund me? no reason why no sorry nothing!! My advice is speak to Stuart at the roll centre!! top bloke and sorted me out in a couple of days!

#5 jonb_5

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 05:57 PM

Hi,

I had a cage on order from this company - have just emailed him saying I have heard bad reviews about his cages and asked for a refund!

Hope i dont end up loosing my money.

Thanks

Jon

#6 ferrit

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 07:21 PM

Thanks for this, i was going to post a thread today asking if anyone had used one of their cages as i was tempted. i'm after a cage that's not FIA approved as it'll be purely aesthetic, i thought geronimo was just the ticket, how wrong i was....

i'll have to do a post about other suppliers of reasonably priced cages instead...

Cheers and good luck with the trading standards...


Marv


I was of the same opinion as you but just wanted one to stiffen the car up when i cut the nose off. However when I actually thought about it I decided that in the unfortunate event of a crash I didnt want a piece of metal sticking out of me due to shitty welds or the seams splitting on non cds tubing. At the end of the day if it aint safe it's dangerous and I dont want that any where near my head.
I waited paitiently until a kosher safety devices one became available, missed out on that one then waited until another kosher safety device one became available but made sure it became mine. This way I have a six point cage MSA approved (no diagonal so no FIA), with CDS tubing from a trusted maker for the same as a rear cage new and only a few quid more than the Geronimo ones.

Whats more important looks or your life?

#7 Bungle

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 07:34 PM

i wonder what address they would give if you asked to send them a cheque for one of their cages ?

#8 directorydaz

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 09:08 PM

good point bungle!

#9 marvin151173

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 10:20 AM

Thanks for this, i was going to post a thread today asking if anyone had used one of their cages as i was tempted. i'm after a cage that's not FIA approved as it'll be purely aesthetic, i thought geronimo was just the ticket, how wrong i was....

i'll have to do a post about other suppliers of reasonably priced cages instead...

Cheers and good luck with the trading standards...


Marv


I was of the same opinion as you but just wanted one to stiffen the car up when i cut the nose off. However when I actually thought about it I decided that in the unfortunate event of a crash I didnt want a piece of metal sticking out of me due to shitty welds or the seams splitting on non cds tubing. At the end of the day if it aint safe it's dangerous and I dont want that any where near my head.
I waited paitiently until a kosher safety devices one became available, missed out on that one then waited until another kosher safety device one became available but made sure it became mine. This way I have a six point cage MSA approved (no diagonal so no FIA), with CDS tubing from a trusted maker for the same as a rear cage new and only a few quid more than the Geronimo ones.

Whats more important looks or your life?



All good points well made, i will just have to be patient and keep looking.

I must say your approach to explaining this was far mor pleasent and effective than Jimmy Bustard who is clearly a man of few harsh words...


cheers

Marv

#10 captain kirk

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 11:00 AM

sorry to hijack this thread i have a six point roll cage made by t.t.lyle are these any good? whent and a look at the welds and they all look neat and tidy, i got the cage with another mini i brought

#11 the.stroker

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 11:05 AM

mate tt lyle was an excellent fabricator,i have one of his cages in my mini,although not fia approved they are very strong and bolted in to the bodywork in the right places,its a shame he retired a few years back.you have nothing to worry about.

#12 captain kirk

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 11:14 AM

mate tt lyle was an excellent fabricator,i have one of his cages in my mini,although not fia approved they are very strong and bolted in to the bodywork in the right places,its a shame he retired a few years back.you have nothing to worry about.

thanks for that, thats put my mind at rest i got the sales reicpet its dated 4/7/2004 after reading this thread it makes you a bit worried
once again thanks for your help

#13 the.stroker

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 11:21 AM

no problem!

#14 Dan

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 11:27 AM

(bucket seat and full harness, and proper rollcage protection)


And NO PASSENGERS, certainly not in the back. Ever. A front passenger is taking a big risk too, unless he has a 5 point belt and proper seat and helmet and you've fully padded the cage.

Maybe Jammy's response was a little snappier but it was also more accurate. A rollcage has no place in a road car at all. They are very dangerous things unless you are in a properly built racecar and have full racing equipment. Car manufacturers have spent the last 50 years removing all the solid steel bits from the passenger cell of cars because it is very dangerous to have it there, they haven't done that for a laugh it cost them a lot of money. If you search the forum for information about Geronimo cages you will find quite a lot of negative opinion of the product. I will make one point about welding though, roll cages are meant to have messy, undressed welds. If the welds are dressed and ground back they fail scrutineering. I haven't seen the welds you are talking about obviously but if they simply look beaded and lumpy then they are perfect. If they look spattered though than you are right to complain. If you also search for roll cages in general you will probably find a much more long winded response from me about why I think they are a terrible idea. Your safety is your responsibility though and it's your choice if you want to put a cage in the car but please consider all the arguments first and not simply the aesthetic.

#15 directorydaz

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Posted 30 March 2008 - 05:11 PM

I will make one point about welding though, roll cages are meant to have messy, undressed welds. If the welds are dressed and ground back they fail scrutineering. I haven't seen the welds you are talking about obviously but if they simply look beaded and lumpy then they are perfect. If they look spattered though than you are right to complain.


The welds on the cage are very very messy spatter and are started a few times on some of them, i am aware they shouldnt be dressed,

The only way i can describe how i would imagine them to look is like a weld on a bike frame, these are far from that and have already had to be dressed before they left as they are that messy

I googled geronimo on several searches and found his 15year old son claims to be a welder in the company, so i can only assume he does all the cheeper cages

There has been some developements on this since late friday night i will update this thread early next week and let you all know




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